Zoomside Chat, Pt. 1 of 3: Cementing Your Employer Branding

Companies’ roles as an employer is top of mind these days. The nature of the workforce is changing rapidly due to COVID-19 and the ensuing economic uncertainty — keeping your employer brand crystal clear through that uncertainty is more important than ever.

To dive into this topic together, we held a Zoomside Chat with peers in the field. The first in a three-part series, we discussed how to cement your employer brand to answer the question: Who are you as an employer? Do so, and you’ll be well on your way to establishing yourself as a top talent attractor.

Here is the recording, highlights from the discussion, and a full transcript.

Recording: Cementing Your Employer Brand

The recording of our discussion is also here on YouTube.

Highlights on the Discovery Phase

You can register for upcoming Zoomside Chats here. We bring together HR experts to discuss how to be the best employer and recruiter you can be — with lots of time dedicated to Q&A and discussion with attendees. We hope to see you there soon!

The LinkedIn profiles of our employer branding experts, if you’d like to connect with them further:

  • Rafael Marcus, Owner, RBM Consulting and formerly Head of Employer Brand at UiPath
  • Ray Ferreira, Founder & Chief Strategist, Verge Experience Strategies
  • Lori Golden, Head of Elastic Recruiting at Comeet

The impact of a strong talent brand is tangible: 31% increase in response rate, 20% time-to-hire improvement, 43% lower cost per hire. Here’s an article on the LinkedIn data that shines a light on the ROI of talent brand. For even more examples, check out the Ultimate List of Employer Brand Statistics from LinkedIn.

Budgeting for your employer brand initiatives was a recurring topic across the Zoomside Chat. Rafael offered this matrix that he points clients to. It helps map the level of demand and engagement, as well as the size, of your target talent pool — helping you identify where to invest in your employer brand.


Another recurring topic: Understanding what your employer brand actually is. Rafael shared the below visual to drive home the point that your employer brand is a representation of 4 voices: your investors’, your partners’, your talent pool’s, and/or your customers’.


To uncover what your employer brand is, Ray shared more on his Me, We, World model. He recommended companies build a discovery process that uncovers both quantitative and qualitative information about those 4 voices. From each target audience, try to uncover:

  1. What is it you’re looking for?
  2. What are we looking to do together?
  3. How can we change the world?

And a reminder that you can register for upcoming events here.

Event Transcription of the Zoomside Chat

00:00:05.009 –> 00:00:20.640
Comeet Webinar: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining. I see participants are joining as we speak. And as everyone tunes in, we’re just going to spend a few minutes, letting everyone join and getting ready. So stay tuned for us.

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To kick it off.

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Rafael Marcus: Everybody

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Ray Ferreira: Either

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Comeet Webinar: If you’re just joining we’re, we’re really excited to kick off this conversation about cementing your employer brand. We’re just waiting a minute or two for everyone to join. So stay tuned. And as we wait

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Comeet Webinar: A minute or two, please start to think about any questions you may have, over the course of the the discussion. We want to hear from you in the chat. The chat function at the bottom of the screen.

00:01:15.750 –> 00:01:30.990
Comeet Webinar: If you’re just tuning in here. We’re about to kick off our conversation on cementing your employer brand. We’re just waiting a minute or two for everyone to join and as we wait, please. Think of your questions that you want to ask our panelists here.

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Comeet Webinar: And we’ll be having an active chat while we also listening to the discussion.

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Comeet Webinar: Alright, well thanks everyone for joining. I’m going to pass it off to Lori and I will be your kind of contact in the chat box throughout this conversation. So again, please feel free to add in your questions.

00:02:04.770 –> 00:02:10.500
Comeet Webinar: Your thoughts on the discussion and we’re excited to have you here. Alright, Lori oh video

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Lori Golden: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining who meets second webinar in our new series of webinars, we’re, what we’re doing is we’re bringing experts together in this space of talent employer brand culture.

00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:34.830
Lori Golden: Diversity Inclusion all kinds of hot topics so that while we have this time and space right now in this very strange world wherein

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Lori Golden: We can do some knowledge sharing bring do our part, bring people together network and try to sell for some things, and identify some cool opportunities.

00:02:46.290 –> 00:03:02.760
Lori Golden: That are coming up in this time. So I’ve been if you’ve listened before if you tuned in before you know I’m a huge push for. There are a lot of untapped opportunities right now we are gifted with a slow down, period. Unfortunately, the circumstances are not

00:03:03.960 –> 00:03:14.730
Lori Golden: Favorable but we are gifted with a slow down period, which is a great time for reevaluating re strategizing and re prioritizing some of the things that you’re doing.

00:03:15.240 –> 00:03:24.180
Lori Golden: So, and it seems as though you know in the grand scheme. Our people are looking to us right HR professionals leaders.

00:03:24.600 –> 00:03:45.750
Lori Golden: For answers right now like. So what should we be doing, what are some ways that we can be adding value right now. So, so we want to give answers to everyone on the line and be a resource for that. So I’m here. My I’m Lori golden I’m the head of come eat elastic recruiting, which is a malleable.

00:03:47.100 –> 00:03:51.330
Lori Golden: program that helps companies scale talent. I’m also

00:03:52.590 –> 00:03:53.280
Lori Golden: Marcus.

00:03:54.540 –> 00:04:04.140
Lori Golden: As prior head of employer brand for you I path we work together there I he also prior to that comes from LinkedIn and had a lot of

00:04:04.740 –> 00:04:15.210
Lori Golden: Great employer brand campaign and involvement with many different companies there. So he brings a breadth and wealth of a lot of different experiences and information for us.

00:04:15.900 –> 00:04:24.360
Lori Golden: Ray for era with verge. He has a history as well. More on the marketing and branding side from the agency side of the house.

00:04:24.870 –> 00:04:33.210
Lori Golden: He’s done a lot of work with some large corporations in wills in telecommunications and he is now working

00:04:34.020 –> 00:04:48.870
Lori Golden: You know in in on his own and a project capacity doing engagements for company. So I want to welcome both RAF and Ray to the conversation. And we’re going to jump in and start asking some engaging Employer branding questions.

00:04:50.010 –> 00:04:57.540
Lori Golden: Of our experts and have a discussion that way. If you have questions, please do feel free to drop them in chat Adrian

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Lori Golden: Labeled up there as Co meet webinar is going to be moderating all of your questions as well as dropping information polls and links in as we go. So

00:05:08.760 –> 00:05:23.610
Lori Golden: Buckle up, you’re in for a treat here. So, so we’ll go ahead and get started. I’ll pull up my first question. I, I, we are targeting of course we’ve got all kinds of leaders on the phone. We’ve got HR leaders. We’ve got founders, we’ve got

00:05:24.120 –> 00:05:37.200
Lori Golden: C level executives of larger companies, we’ve got, you know, smaller company leaders, so I’m not going to take anything for granted. I want to start with the basic question like what is Employer branding or talent branding, as some people call it

00:05:37.560 –> 00:05:43.200
Lori Golden: And why does it matter. And we’re going to start with raft here and then we’ll hear from ray

00:05:44.220 –> 00:06:00.420
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, sure. And thanks for having me. Lori really exciting to be here. I love talking about all this stuff and talk about it for days on end. So, what a great way to spend some time during the quarantine. Um, so, you know, for the question of what is employer brand or town brand.

00:06:01.590 –> 00:06:09.750
Rafael Marcus: Essentially, it’s the thing that is living inside of a company right inside the walls of the company that you don’t necessarily have

00:06:10.440 –> 00:06:19.230
Rafael Marcus: A necessarily specific words for anything. There are words that you can use to express it, but it’s kind of like the feeling of being inside of a company

00:06:19.590 –> 00:06:25.590
Rafael Marcus: A and then that feeling being expressed outside of the company is basically how I would

00:06:26.250 –> 00:06:36.420
Rafael Marcus: Simply explain what Employer branding is and, you know, very simple comparison. It’s like a consumer brand but for the people in your in your company what it’s like to work there.

00:06:36.900 –> 00:06:45.510
Rafael Marcus: So that’s the simplest way to explain it. And, you know, I’m sure re has has something that as well. And then the other part of why it’s so important.

00:06:47.130 –> 00:06:53.850
Rafael Marcus: Also very, very simple. And we can go into I’ll go into some details when we get to know how to get buy in and all that stuff.

00:06:54.240 –> 00:07:04.050
Rafael Marcus: But why it’s so important is because the most important thing in any business as we’ve probably heard over and over again is its people and so

00:07:04.500 –> 00:07:14.010
Rafael Marcus: If attracting great people is really important to your business, which it probably is for every business then arguably

00:07:14.520 –> 00:07:23.550
Rafael Marcus: There is actually nothing more important than the employer brand. And, you know, the consumer brand or the brand focusing on customers.

00:07:24.150 –> 00:07:33.660
Rafael Marcus: Or partners or, you know, the corporate brand are all important as well. Don’t get me wrong, but I would argue, and obviously I’m bias that

00:07:34.350 –> 00:07:52.170
Rafael Marcus: You know, the brand essence of the entire company is the most important thing, and then how that it’s expressed in the employer brand. A is not second too many things. Um, so yeah, so that’s my perspective, Ray. I don’t know. I’m sure you have find out

00:07:52.770 –> 00:07:59.670
Ray Ferreira: Sure. Sure. Thanks. Thanks for the great fundamental question. Let’s get this all all straight from the start.

00:08:00.510 –> 00:08:07.320
Ray Ferreira: From the traditional definition right is that it’s the reason that talented people want to come and work for you.

00:08:07.770 –> 00:08:18.540
Ray Ferreira: But in reality for for companies that are either in control of their employer brand who are or who aren’t in control of their employer brand because your, your company has a brand, no matter what.

00:08:18.930 –> 00:08:28.950
Ray Ferreira: It’s the sum of all of the impressions that your company makes as an employer and that could be no impression at all because people may not think of you as an employer.

00:08:29.850 –> 00:08:43.620
Ray Ferreira: But it could be a positive or a negative impression. So we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit more about that later when when we talk about other sources of information but but the other the other side of it.

00:08:44.880 –> 00:08:57.000
Ray Ferreira: Is that your brand needs to be unique. Because if you’re controlling your brand. You need to help people make a decision. It’s, it’s there to help people who are on a journey of exploring your organization or

00:08:57.510 –> 00:09:04.560
Ray Ferreira: Working in your organization. So they’re part of a candidate journey, or they’re part of the life cycle and deployment lifecycle.

00:09:05.040 –> 00:09:14.310
Ray Ferreira: And at any given point, different decisions come up and your brand helps them make those choices in the moment and those choices relate to

00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:24.990
Ray Ferreira: As as Rafael said they relate to feelings. First, and it relates to logical information. Second, because people people in all aspects, go to

00:09:25.230 –> 00:09:37.260
Ray Ferreira: Their gut feeling for to make those decisions. So that’s the, you know, that’s the reason that it’s so important is that it lives there right at the edge of the decision process for candidates for employees.

00:09:37.800 –> 00:09:52.710
Ray Ferreira: For for people who want to describe the company that they work for or for people that want to engage the talent that works for them within an organization that brand is there to help define that. And if you don’t control it. It defines it defines it for you.

00:09:53.760 –> 00:10:01.410
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, and I’ll actually re I’ll add something to what I had said earlier, just to go into a little more detail, which I think will be helpful.

00:10:01.860 –> 00:10:11.730
Rafael Marcus: Um, as to why it’s so important. Um, based on what you’re saying, I’m just an example of why it’s so important. And what it is, think of

00:10:12.300 –> 00:10:17.820
Rafael Marcus: A company like just randomly, like the Home Depot. Right. And they have a website that gets

00:10:18.120 –> 00:10:30.930
Rafael Marcus: You know, probably 1500 million people a day right and normal times I don’t know what’s going on now. But actually, probably higher now, but they’ve a huge e commerce platform. Um, it’s a $90 billion a year business.

00:10:32.370 –> 00:10:48.690
Rafael Marcus: And you know they need great engineers right software engineers and you know application engineers and technology technologists. Now, if they aren’t working on their employer brand and a recruiter messages or sends an outreach to

00:10:49.890 –> 00:10:55.620
Rafael Marcus: A potential engineer or somebody they want to hire from a great company that you know has a great pedigree and everything.

00:10:57.090 –> 00:11:14.190
Rafael Marcus: You know, what’s the first thing that somebody thinks of when they see Home Depot. Right. Do they think hammers and nails. Do they think big piece of wood, or do they think platform that 50 million people a day visit that needs to scale and efficient.

00:11:14.250 –> 00:11:25.620
Rafael Marcus: Here right security. So if it’s the former. Good luck to Home Depot. If it’s the ladder. Great job, Home Depot. And that’s, you know,

00:11:25.920 –> 00:11:34.800
Rafael Marcus: Kind of just an example, you know, an example, not a real I’m just making stuff up. Just an example, but I hope that helps people understand the why it’s so important part

00:11:35.850 –> 00:11:53.790
Ray Ferreira: Yet someone some of the most compelling situations that we’ve gotten into in in doing qualitative research, we, we learned that people didn’t see the company as someone who employed that type of person or someone like them and that someone like me, that or the them.

00:11:55.050 –> 00:12:11.310
Ray Ferreira: Can take a lot of different directions. It can can play out in different dimensions, it can be their profession. It can be the, the kind of up and coming person that they are but but sometimes that’s the most basic understanding that a brand has to help people.

00:12:11.310 –> 00:12:11.520
Lori Golden: With

00:12:11.550 –> 00:12:13.200
Ray Ferreira: The type of people that really hire

00:12:14.400 –> 00:12:15.960
Rafael Marcus: And the last thing I mentioned

00:12:17.430 –> 00:12:18.240
Rafael Marcus: Is

00:12:19.710 –> 00:12:32.910
Rafael Marcus: The Why is important is also the impact on the bottom line for the business in terms of sales, especially for B2C companies. So a Virgin Media in the UK Richard Branson’s company.

00:12:33.240 –> 00:12:40.830
Rafael Marcus: did a study a few quite a few years ago, five years ago, something, seeing how the candidate experience affected cable subscriptions.

00:12:41.640 –> 00:12:52.170
Rafael Marcus: And they lost $5 million a year because the what they found is they lost $5 million a year and subscriptions, because people didn’t feel good in the interview process.

00:12:52.260 –> 00:13:01.650
Rafael Marcus: With them, and you know, interviewing isn’t necessarily all encompassing of employer brand, but it is a part of it. Because you want the interviewing to express the brand properly.

00:13:02.670 –> 00:13:23.100
Rafael Marcus: But the bigger picture is that, you know, if I were to buy a cup of coffee from Starbucks, you know, do I feel good about it because they put their baristas through college, and that you know that’s about their employees not about their product, but it can resonate so deeply and so strongly

00:13:24.210 –> 00:13:26.700
Rafael Marcus: That it could actually affect consumer behavior.

00:13:27.180 –> 00:13:28.170
Rafael Marcus: So I think that’s

00:13:28.260 –> 00:13:31.530
Rafael Marcus: You know, that’s the final point I’ll make on why it’s important. It’s not just for higher

00:13:32.040 –> 00:13:32.460

00:13:33.570 –> 00:13:39.210
Ray Ferreira: I think we’re in a period of time where we’re seeing more of more of those feel good messages than ever before.

00:13:39.630 –> 00:13:40.230
Lori Golden: Exactly.

00:13:40.440 –> 00:13:42.420
Rafael Marcus: Is it greenwashing or white washing or is it real.

00:13:42.420 –> 00:13:42.750
Ray Ferreira: And that’s

00:13:43.020 –> 00:13:46.740
Rafael Marcus: When people actually use their wallet to make a decision on

00:13:47.670 –> 00:13:56.460
Lori Golden: Here or thrust into the future of work and certainly this is a hot topic and becomes much more relevant in the new talent landscape as we come out of this. So,

00:13:56.940 –> 00:14:06.360
Lori Golden: That’s why this is so key and so important. I think that the the mindset is going to have to shift on what matters what’s worth investing in both time and resources.

00:14:06.660 –> 00:14:10.170
Lori Golden: Which is a great segue to the next question, which is, so how do you what

00:14:10.740 –> 00:14:19.500
Lori Golden: So, so this makes sense to all as talent geeks, what we’re saying. But how do you convince somebody who’s very revenue driven numbers data focus

00:14:19.680 –> 00:14:28.260
Lori Golden: How do you show them that this matters directly to the bottom line directly to the talent that is being attracted like how do you make those correlations so that

00:14:28.560 –> 00:14:37.020
Lori Golden: If I want to be a champion in my organization of have a stronger employer brand from anywhere right from HR from talent acquisition from

00:14:37.290 –> 00:14:46.830
Lori Golden: Employee engagement from wherever. But if I want to make a push to be the champion of that, like, where do I start, what is the information that I need to deliver and how does that need to happen.

00:14:47.760 –> 00:14:53.490
Lori Golden: Raph, let’s start with you because you’ve been very analytics heavy in this in this, you know, in your experience.

00:14:53.940 –> 00:15:01.590
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, sure. And I think from the pole Adrian, if I have a right most majority was Employer branding sits in HR is our

00:15:02.070 –> 00:15:11.460
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, so it’s 60% six and HR 25% of marketing, which is which is cool to see and not that surprising that it’s kind of divided up this way.

00:15:11.940 –> 00:15:19.380
Rafael Marcus: And the reason I bring that up is because, from my experience both working with talent acquisition teams.

00:15:20.040 –> 00:15:29.400
Rafael Marcus: To help them build strategy for Employer branding on LinkedIn to also doing it myself at glide path recently and some other projects I’m working on now. Um,

00:15:30.000 –> 00:15:38.610
Rafael Marcus: You know, it’s really hard to get resources and unfortunately if you want to be at all aggressive

00:15:39.330 –> 00:15:46.500
Rafael Marcus: In the marketplace with Employer branding, um, my recommendation would be to try to really get a significant amount of budget.

00:15:47.010 –> 00:15:54.030
Rafael Marcus: To be able to do things because it gives you options. Now that’s not easy, especially from my experience coming from HR

00:15:54.810 –> 00:16:01.770
Rafael Marcus: Now, if you’re in marketing, it may be easier. But it’s never easy to get significant budget, kind of, no matter what position you’re in

00:16:02.250 –> 00:16:13.560
Rafael Marcus: So the way I did it and secured, you know, when I was at you I path is secured a seven figure budget, just for Employer branding, which was awesome. How open and, you know, trusting, they were

00:16:14.640 –> 00:16:21.990
Rafael Marcus: When I was at LinkedIn helping other you know clients or town acquisition teams, try to get a budget and approval.

00:16:22.590 –> 00:16:31.800
Rafael Marcus: I basically used a quantitative approach, right, because in the end, if you’re going to ask for a million dollars or $10 million or whatever amount union or half a million dollars.

00:16:32.250 –> 00:16:38.250
Rafael Marcus: Which is also might sound like scary numbers. So a lot of people, you’re gonna have to have a very strong business case so

00:16:39.180 –> 00:16:48.600
Rafael Marcus: What I have done is basically used us statistics that come from some studies, quite a few come from LinkedIn, but there are plenty out there otherwise.

00:16:49.080 –> 00:17:01.590
Rafael Marcus: But what we see or what some data out there that you can use as examples are that a strong employer brand on average can reduce time to hire by 20%

00:17:02.190 –> 00:17:13.050
Rafael Marcus: So that isn’t a great statistic for anyone in town acquisition, but a CFO doesn’t give a shit because, you know, what does that mean to me as a CFO well

00:17:13.350 –> 00:17:21.450
Rafael Marcus: If any one person that you’re trying to hire. Let’s say you’re trying to hire people, they’re going to hire 100 people all of those people

00:17:22.140 –> 00:17:31.830
Rafael Marcus: Create some sort of value on an annual level compared to their salary. Right, that’s, that’s how businesses work that every single person you invest in, in terms of having on your payroll.

00:17:32.280 –> 00:17:40.740
Rafael Marcus: Needs to produce in order to be worth their salary right so let’s say everyone produces three times their, their salary.

00:17:41.070 –> 00:17:50.910
Rafael Marcus: Well, you can basically chop that down to daily production right X number of dollars are produced every day by this person, this person, this person.

00:17:51.360 –> 00:17:58.440
Rafael Marcus: And if you’re hiring hundred people. You can basically say, well, if I can get those people in 20% faster. Maybe that’s 10 days faster.

00:17:59.070 –> 00:18:03.720
Rafael Marcus: That’s 10 times the amount of value that each person is producing

00:18:04.140 –> 00:18:16.050
Rafael Marcus: Times the number of people. You have to hire and all of a sudden the value of bringing people in 20% faster is like staggering for a CFO or for somebody who actually needs to see

00:18:16.470 –> 00:18:31.050
Rafael Marcus: The like the ROI in quantitative firm, firm form money wise. I mean, it’s pretty pretty amazing and other I’ll just do two other stats, just for people to kind of noodle on there’s a 43%

00:18:31.920 –> 00:18:44.640
Rafael Marcus: reduction in cost per hire. Think about that. If I let you know, again, let’s just do simple math. So let’s just move up to 50% for easy math. Let’s say it costs you on average $10,000 per hire and you have to hire 100 people

00:18:45.840 –> 00:18:55.470
Rafael Marcus: That’s a, that’s a time is a million dollars right now if you decrease that by 50% you’re saving half a million dollars. I mean,

00:18:56.130 –> 00:19:05.730
Rafael Marcus: If you continue, then a quarter. A half of that $250,000 and say I need $250,000 for Employer branding and I will make you back $250,000

00:19:06.270 –> 00:19:14.100
Rafael Marcus: It’s no brainer, right. Um, and then there’s there’s other stats like decrease in attrition and increase in quality of hire, which

00:19:14.460 –> 00:19:23.940
Rafael Marcus: leads to higher production per employee. So there’s all these kind of numbers out there and figures out there that can be turned into quantitative

00:19:24.300 –> 00:19:39.180
Rafael Marcus: Results using. How many people are going to hire what you asked me in terms of value that they produce, which is something that I do for some companies and then just putting it all together and then you have some simple arithmetic that a CFO should be drooling over

00:19:43.110 –> 00:19:45.330
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, so just want to throw out some of those right

00:19:45.600 –> 00:19:45.930
Ray Ferreira: That’s what

00:19:46.050 –> 00:19:46.770
Ray Ferreira: That’s where I was gonna

00:19:48.090 –> 00:20:00.900
Ray Ferreira: Go with it as well. I mean, you know, you need to speak the language of the people who are making the choices on investing in this and and the value chain is a critical part of how employees come into an organization. That’s what they’re there for.

00:20:01.260 –> 00:20:03.600
Ray Ferreira: Your organization is a business model.

00:20:03.810 –> 00:20:11.100
Ray Ferreira: For an for turning their, their work, their relationships, the way they treat customers into value for your organization.

00:20:11.610 –> 00:20:24.420
Ray Ferreira: And so if we look at the brand as an improver of that value or if we look at at the brand as an inspiration for the impact that you can have in the value chain.

00:20:24.750 –> 00:20:34.500
Ray Ferreira: Then we should be, first of all, we should work inductive Lee right and we should build a brand around the value chain, the value that an employee brings in the value chain.

00:20:35.430 –> 00:20:42.660
Ray Ferreira: But we can also then start to go to numerical information that people in the C suite are

00:20:43.620 –> 00:20:57.120
Ray Ferreira: Going to be very concerned about so public image is is definitely something that that large organizations, spend a good amount of time and money managing and so there is that that public image, the

00:20:57.630 –> 00:21:03.090
Ray Ferreira: Attended employer brand tends to look like what we see sometimes in

00:21:03.480 –> 00:21:14.820
Ray Ferreira: On Glassdoor. It doesn’t take long to look around Glassdoor to find people that have let the weeds grow in their public image when it comes to that employer brand, but we can also then quantify it in

00:21:15.390 –> 00:21:22.680
Ray Ferreira: Speed to higher retention rate employee engagement and what that means for absenteeism, what it means for

00:21:23.730 –> 00:21:33.420
Ray Ferreira: Workforce demographics are you getting the people at the right age levels, the right experience levels that you need the right diversity levels that you need and how can the brand.

00:21:34.110 –> 00:21:38.610
Ray Ferreira: Impact that and that’s really important stuff. The quality of hire how

00:21:39.600 –> 00:21:45.540
Ray Ferreira: How quickly can you get time to hire is one thing, but the quality and the frustration of the hiring manager.

00:21:45.780 –> 00:21:54.510
Ray Ferreira: Who sees a slate. That is, you know, mediocre and there and they’re not happy with it, at least by their judgment and and maybe they don’t know what they’re looking for, but

00:21:55.500 –> 00:22:05.310
Ray Ferreira: But you know the the quality of the demand that you have. Do you have a trickle. You have a torrent everybody wants a torrent, but sometimes we don’t have that kind of demand.

00:22:05.700 –> 00:22:15.450
Ray Ferreira: And the employer brand can help boost all of those and and we can look at things where we can use money more efficiently when we look at

00:22:15.930 –> 00:22:23.790
Ray Ferreira: Solutions like employee referral or or just informal referral and and the voice of the employee in public.

00:22:24.270 –> 00:22:35.100
Ray Ferreira: When they talk about or your organization. And if they know how to talk about your organization and what their value or what their part in the value chain is that’s all part of the employer brand.

00:22:35.970 –> 00:22:44.490
Ray Ferreira: I think there are, you know, there are other ways to engage people that we can talk about as we as we go on. But, you know, in terms of

00:22:45.060 –> 00:22:58.500
Ray Ferreira: You know rationalizing or quantifying or we’re getting to the numbers and get into the budget. I think it’s, it’s best to to go to the value chain and speak the language of those people that are making the making the choices.

00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:09.510
Rafael Marcus: And adding a little bit to the quantitative part that you’re mentioning Ray I just want to show people agent. If you want to have that visual of the

00:23:10.500 –> 00:23:24.600
Rafael Marcus: Matrix. I just want to show people a way that are in my primary way of figuring out how much budget, I might need. And, you know, this is just high level. The devils in the details and

00:23:25.170 –> 00:23:35.070
Rafael Marcus: That’s like a entire thing by itself. But what you’re looking at is a way that I try to figure out, you know how much budget will I need and where should it go

00:23:36.210 –> 00:23:42.150
Rafael Marcus: And you know there’s there’s more on this for the future of parts of the series. But basically what you’re looking at is a matrix.

00:23:42.630 –> 00:23:52.920
Rafael Marcus: That essentially four core roles that I would need these are just examples just random, but let’s say I had to hire these groups of people or was

00:23:53.610 –> 00:24:00.330
Rafael Marcus: You know hired as an as a consultant to advise the company on where to how much money to invest in where to invest it

00:24:00.690 –> 00:24:09.510
Rafael Marcus: I would basically look at three metrics and then graph it out like this and will show you later why I graph it out like this. But essentially what I want to know.

00:24:09.840 –> 00:24:16.200
Rafael Marcus: Is for each specific audience that we need to, you know, attract software engineers in Chicago on the top left.

00:24:16.680 –> 00:24:20.250
Rafael Marcus: Sales in New York sales in Chicago accounts Chicago customer support natural

00:24:20.790 –> 00:24:27.690
Rafael Marcus: What is the level of demand in the marketplace. So that’s, you know, third third party and just or macro economic

00:24:27.960 –> 00:24:35.010
Rafael Marcus: What is the demand for those audiences different ways to get that information LinkedIn talent insights is one of them. But sure there’s a million other ways.

00:24:35.430 –> 00:24:43.530
Rafael Marcus: And the other one is more micro economic, which is how much engagement. Do they have with our company right now. Right.

00:24:44.070 –> 00:24:57.810
Rafael Marcus: And both of those things together. What’s the demand and what’s the engagement look help you figure out how aggressive or not aggressive, you need to be in your, you know, both paid and earned media and content generation, all that stuff.

00:24:58.920 –> 00:25:03.360
Rafael Marcus: And that’s basically what this matrix tells us. So what we see here on the size of the circle.

00:25:04.020 –> 00:25:08.940
Rafael Marcus: You see, is the size of the talent pool, which is also a big factor right if there’s a huge talent pool.

00:25:09.240 –> 00:25:15.930
Rafael Marcus: Okay, then you have more people to choose from. You have more, you know, more options. It’s less risky. If you have a very small talent pool.

00:25:16.290 –> 00:25:23.700
Rafael Marcus: You have to be a bit more careful bit more strategic and more, you know, focus and hear what you can see again just set a random example.

00:25:24.030 –> 00:25:34.140
Rafael Marcus: Software engineers in Chicago would be high, very high demand and very low engagement. Maybe this is, you know, a family bank in Chicago in the Midwest, or something as an example.

00:25:34.350 –> 00:25:41.280
Rafael Marcus: And they need engineers, nobody’s ever heard of them or no engineers have really ever heard of them from an Employer branding standpoint, meaning they’re not engaging

00:25:41.580 –> 00:25:46.980
Rafael Marcus: They’re not visiting the website and I’m using LinkedIn, you know, not their glass door page and the demand is very high.

00:25:47.400 –> 00:25:56.970
Rafael Marcus: And the talent pool sizes. A bit moderate on the smaller side but kind of moderate. So what do we have to do to attract them right. We need more budget, we need more resources.

00:25:57.330 –> 00:25:59.730
Rafael Marcus: Maybe we need to hire an agency to do some creative work.

00:26:00.210 –> 00:26:07.950
Rafael Marcus: For that audience specifically compared to accountants in Chicago seems like they know us highly engaged, right, to the right of that that line.

00:26:08.310 –> 00:26:16.050
Rafael Marcus: And demand is so high. So maybe we can get away with just, you know, using our network or just, you know, putting job postings up there.

00:26:16.410 –> 00:26:32.130
Rafael Marcus: And not doing too much on a in terms of investing and that’s how you’re going to figure out the best way to spend your money, which will lead to the highest ROI. So I just wanted to show people this and have them understand kind of part of the process that I go through and

00:26:32.220 –> 00:26:33.150
Rafael Marcus: Trying to get brand.

00:26:33.540 –> 00:26:36.390
Ray Ferreira: More heavy lift. Right, right.

00:26:36.420 –> 00:26:36.810

00:26:38.610 –> 00:26:39.480
Rafael Marcus: Lori, did you have something

00:26:42.540 –> 00:26:43.500
Rafael Marcus: You’re on mute. I think you’re

00:26:47.400 –> 00:26:48.150
Rafael Marcus: still muted.

00:26:49.740 –> 00:27:03.270
Lori Golden: Okay. Hi. Sorry about that. You know, I was that that’s a great graph and really useful. That was an incredible tool to go ahead and get the budget that we needed at your path and certainly can be used in pretty much any scenario.

00:27:04.110 –> 00:27:15.210
Lori Golden: And. And you know what, when you start to understand kind of what the talent landscape looks like what the demand is what the engagement levels are I mean this is a very compelling story.

00:27:15.270 –> 00:27:19.080
Lori Golden: Right, and then very easily and pretty much any anybody in leadership.

00:27:19.650 –> 00:27:30.150
Lori Golden: could appreciate and understand this because at the end of the day talent acquisition gets the most focus right like so when are we getting all these sales people in New York in these accounts in Chicago.

00:27:30.330 –> 00:27:43.380
Lori Golden: That’s the number that’s the metric that everyone’s focused on, you know, and so this is a good. This is a good way to kind of correlate that to why employer brand again matters and why it’s worth spending on and

00:27:43.740 –> 00:27:56.070
Lori Golden: Why it’s such a necessary component to attracting top talent. I mean, it’s you know, it’s the component to it so great, Ray. Do you want to add to to that conversation to that piece.

00:27:57.300 –> 00:28:09.600
Ray Ferreira: No, no, you know, there, there have been various analytical tools that we’ve developed spreadsheets that we share with people, but not on that kind of a kind of a scale, but I always love

00:28:10.290 –> 00:28:28.230
Ray Ferreira: Seeing quadrant diagrams like that to help understand so many dimensions of of what you’re talking about. And I think that one painted a good picture of of demand saw talent pool size and your existing engagement out there in the marketplace. Yep.

00:28:28.650 –> 00:28:34.050
Lori Golden: So, so now that we’ve talked a lot about, okay, getting buy in, you know, you want to champion this in your organization.

00:28:34.260 –> 00:28:40.050
Lori Golden: We know you may have budget or intend to put some budget towards it. And we’ve shown you a little bit high level about

00:28:40.350 –> 00:28:49.800
Lori Golden: You know how to really make that case. And of course, any of these things can we can drive in a lot more detail offline, you know, schedule some time with any one of us.

00:28:50.610 –> 00:28:56.550
Lori Golden: But I want to really get into the discoveries. So now that you’ve got everyone’s buy in and they’ve given you some money like

00:28:56.760 –> 00:29:05.700
Lori Golden: How do you start to figure out what your brand essence is what is the company DNA and identity, how do, how to your internal folks you how to

00:29:05.970 –> 00:29:16.980
Lori Golden: How to people outside. See you rap you spoke a lot in the budget conversation about engagement. How do you determine, you know what that looks like how you’re being perceived in the marketplace.

00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:20.250
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I’ll I re start with a song because he’s

00:29:21.420 –> 00:29:21.750
Rafael Marcus: So,

00:29:22.110 –> 00:29:33.840
Ray Ferreira: We need to be clear about looking in a quantitative manner and looking in a qualitative manner at what your company is how it’s perceived in the environment, how it’s perceived internally.

00:29:34.800 –> 00:29:43.170
Ray Ferreira: And make sure that we’re if we’re going to build a discovery process that we do the right things at the right time and understand each

00:29:44.340 –> 00:29:52.980
Ray Ferreira: For either our own capabilities and our own budgeting perspective, but also for the information that we want to we want to uncover about people.

00:29:54.030 –> 00:30:02.760
Ray Ferreira: So what I try to do is always remember that this relates to a value chain and a decision process right so

00:30:03.570 –> 00:30:15.360
Ray Ferreira: You know, when in the, in the absence of all other things, and even in the presence of of lots of data, people will make a decision based on gut and so we need to know what that gut is about

00:30:15.720 –> 00:30:27.210
Ray Ferreira: And we need to know what their journey is about how they move through a decision process what elements in a process are checkbox elements and get

00:30:27.990 –> 00:30:38.430
Ray Ferreira: Get looked at and then push decide and what elements are struggled over that that their, you know, their decision is made more difficult if they can’t come to a quick answer.

00:30:38.940 –> 00:30:44.130
Ray Ferreira: On it. And so those are those are the things that that we like to think about, but we also

00:30:44.370 –> 00:30:56.670
Ray Ferreira: You know when when we’re looking for those elements that we want to know about the different candidate groups and the different employee groups that we’re serving the audiences that we’re, we’re looking at

00:30:57.840 –> 00:31:07.110
Ray Ferreira: We want to make sure that we understand the little micro elements that each of them wants to find in in their, in their work.

00:31:09.450 –> 00:31:09.900
Ray Ferreira: So,

00:31:13.260 –> 00:31:25.470
Ray Ferreira: When once we understand what what each segment needs, then we’re ready to to begin modeling a brand. After that, but we want to open the discussion around

00:31:25.890 –> 00:31:39.510
Ray Ferreira: Around that value chain. A lot of a lot of organizations, make the mistake of selling, what would be called HR deliverables and getting just a little bit too.

00:31:40.950 –> 00:32:00.000
Ray Ferreira: Rational about what they’re offering and your brand is an opportunity city to bring out slogans and taglines around HR deliverables. And so you want your discovery process to dig deep, for those things that will help people understand what it feels like to work in your

00:32:00.000 –> 00:32:03.360
Ray Ferreira: Organization and will help them understand

00:32:04.980 –> 00:32:23.340
Ray Ferreira: Almost on a I call it a Patrick Lindsey oni five dysfunctions of a team level. So we’re and I’ll, I’ll give you the reference information on that but but we want to look at it what it is that that inspires people

00:32:24.420 –> 00:32:38.010
Ray Ferreira: In finding what what they want to achieve in their life in knowing what a team can help them achieve together with other people. And then in understanding how that can change the world.

00:32:38.820 –> 00:32:52.080
Ray Ferreira: And so a lot of the discovery that I work on the qualitative every day that I work on tends to go in, into this me we world model and and asks people

00:32:52.560 –> 00:33:04.290
Ray Ferreira: You know, what is it that they’re looking for. What is it that we can do together. And then, how, how can that impact the world, but it’s not about HR deliverables. It’s about you seeing me for who I am.

00:33:05.100 –> 00:33:13.920
Ray Ferreira: It’s about us working together in a way that’s comfortable and then it’s it’s knowing that we’re changing things for the greater good.

00:33:15.930 –> 00:33:16.170

00:33:18.600 –> 00:33:19.530
Rafael Marcus: I’m sorry, Raven.

00:33:19.620 –> 00:33:20.250
Ray Ferreira: No, go ahead.

00:33:20.820 –> 00:33:27.840
Rafael Marcus: Um, so yeah, I mean, just add on to what racing, um, you know, you really need to understand

00:33:28.890 –> 00:33:41.040
Rafael Marcus: How people feel inside your company. Right. And unfortunately I’m going through that process. I’M SURE. Ray has tons of stories around this, you’re going to

00:33:41.700 –> 00:33:51.240
Rafael Marcus: evoke some very negative feeling sometimes right and it’s important that you don’t just hear the good stuff that you also hear the bad stuff.

00:33:52.110 –> 00:34:02.100
Rafael Marcus: One so that you know what a shame messaging so that people are prepared properly when they do come into the organization and that they don’t have buyer’s remorse or feel bait and switch

00:34:03.480 –> 00:34:12.180
Rafael Marcus: So really, really important to do that discovery stuff. The way that I usually approach, it is kind of like a pyramid. You think of a

00:34:12.690 –> 00:34:17.850
Rafael Marcus: Just a pyramid at the bottom. The foundation. The base is the company’s values.

00:34:18.510 –> 00:34:27.840
Rafael Marcus: Which should be driving everything right, a company’s values is what should really be driving people’s decision making within a company. And if your

00:34:28.830 –> 00:34:41.760
Rafael Marcus: If your behavior is being dictated, in a way, or at least influenced by the values of the company, which they should be. And then those are the things that are going to kind of create the feeling

00:34:42.270 –> 00:34:50.730
Rafael Marcus: Of of working there. And so above the values are kind of the, the proof points of people living those values within

00:34:50.760 –> 00:34:50.970
Ray Ferreira: Within

00:34:51.030 –> 00:35:06.210
Rafael Marcus: A company. So what I do is I similar to re go deep and try to understand from companies, you know, usually through like focus groups and interviewing and serve is what are the proof points that show that this company really does live those values.

00:35:07.320 –> 00:35:16.410
Rafael Marcus: And and doesn’t also read some of the negative stuff as well. And then from there you can basically design your employee value proposition pillars and I think

00:35:17.520 –> 00:35:28.230
Rafael Marcus: At least was asking about, you know, how do you build your employer value proposition and it comes from first values then proof points that are real.

00:35:28.680 –> 00:35:36.120
Rafael Marcus: And then you can kind of form the pillars. I usually try to infer three but kind of depends on the situation, a few pillars.

00:35:36.900 –> 00:35:43.650
Rafael Marcus: Of basically based on the proof points that come from your values, what is it that you offer to the world.

00:35:44.250 –> 00:35:49.140
Rafael Marcus: To to basically want to come work here. Right. And it’s not as it’s not for everybody. Right.

00:35:49.800 –> 00:36:00.330
Rafael Marcus: So for the people that you would like to have come to work here. What is it that you offer beyond a job right, not the what. But what is the why. Why you exist.

00:36:00.960 –> 00:36:11.550
Rafael Marcus: Why you do what you do and the how your how you do your do your culture, the technology use the mindset of leadership what employees do together to connect and collaborate

00:36:12.300 –> 00:36:21.930
Rafael Marcus: Those are the things that will help basically build your MVP. And then once you have your EP pillars were up that basically will

00:36:22.860 –> 00:36:30.510
Rafael Marcus: Tell you what your brand is your employer brand, right, that you can kind of summarize it into three words and then you have your employer brand, um,

00:36:31.020 –> 00:36:41.880
Rafael Marcus: But yeah, I also just wanted to quickly answer Mary’s question about the Home Depot analogy. So you’re asking how they would change their employer brand to attract tech folk

00:36:42.270 –> 00:36:46.710
Rafael Marcus: It’s a, it’s a couple things. And it’s obviously a very big question. But they would start with

00:36:47.520 –> 00:36:57.240
Rafael Marcus: Basically what Ray was saying is this deep, deep discovery in the areas right that they need people so they want awesome tech people go to the current tech team.

00:36:57.630 –> 00:37:05.250
Rafael Marcus: Leadership, all the way down to individual contributors, talk to them and basically using the pyramid method or, you know, raised

00:37:05.670 –> 00:37:14.040
Rafael Marcus: You know, a fantastic way of doing it as well. Um, figure out what the employer brand or the evening, P is for that group and then

00:37:14.610 –> 00:37:22.650
Rafael Marcus: Invest aggressively if you’re home depot and you’re in a different situation than you are. If you’re a B2B company or startup that not many people have heard of

00:37:22.920 –> 00:37:28.350
Rafael Marcus: Because Home Depot has a brand that everyone in the United States already has some sort of association.

00:37:28.890 –> 00:37:41.970
Rafael Marcus: So they’re they’re arguably up against more because going from nobody knows me too. Oh, this company. Sounds awesome is much easier than going from people think of us as hammers and nails to

00:37:42.390 –> 00:37:52.920
Rafael Marcus: Tech supergiant platform. And basically what they need to do is they need to come up with real authentic storytelling and content that comes out of what we just talked about.

00:37:53.580 –> 00:38:06.180
Rafael Marcus: And then they need to invest aggressively they need to make sure guarantee that the story and messaging that they that is a reflective of their brand.

00:38:07.140 –> 00:38:14.640
Rafael Marcus: Not just to raise point not just taglines but actual like deep content that reflects the why and the how the brand.

00:38:15.150 –> 00:38:30.480
Rafael Marcus: And they need to guarantee that that messaging gets in front of the people they needed to. They can’t just hope for it. They can just put it on their career page and hope that that’s enough because they get, you know, 10 million people a day on their career page.

00:38:30.570 –> 00:38:31.440
Rafael Marcus: Isn’t the right cable.

00:38:32.250 –> 00:38:40.620
Rafael Marcus: Probably not. If engineers thing you know hammers and nails and it’s probably not the right people coming to your career page so doesn’t matter in for that specific audience.

00:38:41.400 –> 00:38:46.950
Rafael Marcus: So there needs to be proactive. Right. So if they’re in the top left corner quadrant of the graph. I just show

00:38:47.490 –> 00:38:50.970
Rafael Marcus: Which is probably the case for a company like Home Depot and then

00:38:51.480 –> 00:39:04.710
Rafael Marcus: You know they need to invest aggressively in the storytelling and the promotion of the storytelling and essentially what they need to do is they need to shift perception in the mind of the user. And that is not done overnight.

00:39:05.250 –> 00:39:13.260
Rafael Marcus: That’s done over a long period of time. Very, very strategically and then maybe after a few months, or however long

00:39:13.680 –> 00:39:28.290
Rafael Marcus: They might start reaping the rewards and getting higher response rates on LinkedIn or other places that they reach out to they might get higher referrals and, you know, that kind of stuff happens as a result. But, you know, Mary, I hope, I hope that answers your question wasn’t too long.

00:39:29.730 –> 00:39:35.190
Ray Ferreira: It’s hard this is this is a tough part to to explain because there’s so many dimensions that you want to be looking at

00:39:36.090 –> 00:39:52.140
Ray Ferreira: We’ve got a multi kind of a multi dimensional process for for for discovery workshops that first requires that we understand some of the challenges that exist in the in the client company but I shared

00:39:52.800 –> 00:39:59.850
Ray Ferreira: And I think it’s, it’s a handout that you’re going to share with with participants, one of the elements is a is a kind of an

00:40:00.270 –> 00:40:11.100
Ray Ferreira: Organic model that has the kind of the, the roots to the tip of the tree, it’s a it’s a tree model for for discovery of of the VP.

00:40:11.640 –> 00:40:23.190
Ray Ferreira: And it goes to the rational and the emotional side so that we understand what of those elements are highly emotional and that we have to talk in an open way and that people will make decisions based on

00:40:23.550 –> 00:40:38.010
Ray Ferreira: And then what are the rational elements that people will check boxes on but that’s, you know, one of any number of elements that we would go through in a discovery workshop, whether it’s a one day discovery workshop or a multi day workshop

00:40:38.580 –> 00:40:40.440
Lori Golden: Let me just mention

00:40:40.980 –> 00:40:55.740
Lori Golden: To everybody online. We are going to be providing you that that tree document as a takeaway, you’ll actually walk away with something that you can, you know, kind of bring to these conversations, or at least start wrapping your head around how you’re going to strategically.

00:40:56.520 –> 00:41:07.500
Lori Golden: Kind of champion this project. So, so please do stay on the line, till the end. I also want to point out too, that this is the first part of a three part series on employer brand.

00:41:07.770 –> 00:41:18.150
Lori Golden: And while we’re really diving into by in why it matters, giving like some basic high level stuff, how you can go to your leaders and your company and and get the traction, you need

00:41:18.330 –> 00:41:22.980
Lori Golden: To champion something like this internally and then what does that discovery process look like

00:41:23.280 –> 00:41:34.380
Lori Golden: Part to me we dive in deeper in each one part two, we’re going to talk about crafting that messaging getting making sure that everybody in the company knows what that that that

00:41:34.680 –> 00:41:41.100
Lori Golden: Elevator Pitch looks like everybody can intelligently represent the company as an employer brand.

00:41:41.700 –> 00:41:49.980
Lori Golden: And and really building out some exciting and engaging meaningful content around your employer brand once that messaging is is is concise.

00:41:50.280 –> 00:41:59.550
Lori Golden: And then the third part is, is the most fun. It’s about amplifying the brand all the great fun events, the bold campaigns. We’ve got some amazing stories.

00:41:59.880 –> 00:42:10.860
Lori Golden: I’m going to just going to say Trojan unicorn. You’ll thank me later. You want to hop on the third one is we’ve got some really cool experiences to share with you and different guests in each one as well.

00:42:11.010 –> 00:42:25.440
Lori Golden: So I just wanted to throw that out there before. More people drop off please stay for the handout for The Takeaway and do join us for the next two as well there every Thursday at noon. So I’m going to get kind of shift into the next part.

00:42:26.490 –> 00:42:30.870
Lori Golden: Which is and if you have any more questions, throw them in the chat and Adrian will get them answered for you.

00:42:32.130 –> 00:42:41.580
Lori Golden: But I wanted to talk about a little bit about ownership. So, you know, we haven’t really touched on this yet, although we did throw the pull out there, but

00:42:42.180 –> 00:42:46.740
Lori Golden: Who are the stakeholders in developing the employer brand like who has to be involved here.

00:42:47.040 –> 00:43:00.240
Lori Golden: Does it sit with marketing does it sit with HR and talent acquisition, the people on the front lines with candidates like what does that have to look like to be successful in terms of, you know, partnership and collaboration.

00:43:01.470 –> 00:43:09.630
Lori Golden: I’m going to start with RAF because I know that we’ve, you know this this was specific to us that you I path as I was growing up talent acquisition

00:43:09.960 –> 00:43:18.450
Lori Golden: And I joined the company when they were very small and early on I was able to make the decision to bring employer brand under talent acquisition, because it’s

00:43:18.840 –> 00:43:31.620
Lori Golden: To me it was a very clear correlation, but I’d like to hear from you guys in terms of what your thoughts are on you know how, what role does marketing play and branding plan, how does everybody, work, play nice in the sandbox there.

00:43:32.730 –> 00:43:33.360
Rafael Marcus: Yeah.

00:43:34.380 –> 00:43:38.670
Rafael Marcus: That’s uh yeah it’s a big question and not necessarily

00:43:40.740 –> 00:43:49.560
Rafael Marcus: Easy for everyone to execute on the answer to it. So I’ll explain from my side, and I’m excited to hear from read what he thinks.

00:43:50.730 –> 00:44:09.540
Rafael Marcus: And it goes really in line with what Emily, one of the the guests wrote about being a recruiter and pushing for Employer branding, but hasn’t built a case before and I guess it also goes to Christina’s question about, like, when to do this. So Christina answer really quickly yesterday.

00:44:11.190 –> 00:44:11.670
Lori Golden: Early

00:44:12.270 –> 00:44:13.980
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I mean as early as you can really

00:44:14.070 –> 00:44:18.480
Rafael Marcus: Um, you know, you want to be ready before any fires do come out that you can put them out.

00:44:19.170 –> 00:44:29.340
Rafael Marcus: But also being proactive. Now of course if you’re a hyper growth startup, you’re in a different situation than a company like Home Depot or an established firm or or a brand new company that is really just the founders.

00:44:29.940 –> 00:44:39.930
Rafael Marcus: So it does depend, but the overarching answer is similarly to market like we should think about it like when marketing ever asked, like, when should we start marketing.

00:44:41.370 –> 00:44:46.440
Rafael Marcus: The answer. And the same thing with recruiting. Like, when do you recruit, you’re always want to have pipeline. Right.

00:44:47.700 –> 00:44:52.590
Rafael Marcus: So it’s not different than really any of those things and to Emily.

00:44:53.880 –> 00:45:00.990
Rafael Marcus: You know, your question makes me think about, you know, a way to answer Lori’s question kind of in the same way, which is

00:45:02.220 –> 00:45:13.650
Rafael Marcus: Ideally you have buy in from the absolute top right. So, at the last company. I was at UI path which, you know, again, I got a seven figure budget from

00:45:14.160 –> 00:45:24.660
Rafael Marcus: The CEO. I had meetings with, um, and, you know, he was very accessible so not always the case. So Sherry huge company you know hundred thousand employees. Plus, it’s not too easy, of course.

00:45:25.080 –> 00:45:35.010
Rafael Marcus: But the higher you go, the more success, you’ll have, um, now Emily and building, you know, building a business plan.

00:45:36.060 –> 00:45:44.730
Rafael Marcus: You know, we gave some some conditions. We don’t have enough time to like really go into details. That’s something that I do offer you know as a consultant

00:45:45.630 –> 00:45:54.210
Rafael Marcus: But, you know, try to quantify it right and turn it into a positive ROI for the business. And that’s going to be the you know the true north

00:45:54.690 –> 00:46:10.710
Rafael Marcus: Um, but, you know, I remember when going into you. I pass and starting to build the employer brand. The top people that I wanted involved were the chief product officer, the chief technology officer, the chief marketing officer.

00:46:11.790 –> 00:46:17.250
Rafael Marcus: And you know the the chief people officer was essentially kind of like my one of my managers.

00:46:18.480 –> 00:46:22.770
Rafael Marcus: And if they are bought in

00:46:23.790 –> 00:46:33.330
Rafael Marcus: People will listen and do what they are told. And that’s basically was my kind of drive forward is get buying at the top to go top down.

00:46:33.780 –> 00:46:39.120
Rafael Marcus: In addition to getting buy in at the bottom line bottom up. So I also

00:46:39.690 –> 00:46:46.830
Rafael Marcus: You know, was in touch with some of the individual contributor engineers and sales people that we, you know, the audience’s that we need to hire

00:46:47.070 –> 00:46:56.400
Rafael Marcus: And there are the front line hiring managers, because they’re the ones. They’re like the mayor’s in a country right they’re the ones on the ground that actually have to really deal with the shit.

00:46:56.670 –> 00:47:02.760
Rafael Marcus: Versus hearing about it and making big decisions, you know, hiring managers are the ones that are actually feeling pain.

00:47:03.240 –> 00:47:12.510
Rafael Marcus: So working with hiring managers, um, you know, and creating relationships with them. I will get them to encourage their employees to

00:47:12.990 –> 00:47:21.750
Rafael Marcus: Participate and that’s what you need. You need to include your contributors badly for discovery and research and focus groups and surveys

00:47:22.380 –> 00:47:37.770
Rafael Marcus: And then you need the messaging to also be consistently coming from the top basically creating an environment where this is the direction the entire team is going so do your part. Listen to your hiring manager and then everyone is kind of on the same page.

00:47:38.970 –> 00:47:53.940
Rafael Marcus: And you know that should lead to a more fluid experience. And, you know, doing discovery and getting buying and then you might even if you have the top people at each function involved. You could even get budget from them.

00:47:55.650 –> 00:47:56.400
Ray Ferreira: You know, so

00:47:56.880 –> 00:47:57.900
Rafael Marcus: Right, and I think that

00:47:57.930 –> 00:48:09.810
Ray Ferreira: Yeah, yeah. So in in working with with big organizations and I see the questions in chat about, you know what, at what point does a small organization start and

00:48:10.440 –> 00:48:19.560
Ray Ferreira: Raphael, great, great point. We start marketing from day one, from the moment that you think you’re going to need to hire somebody have to start to adjust the impression

00:48:19.860 –> 00:48:26.190
Ray Ferreira: And that may be by one on one contact with three or four candidates that you’re going to meet this week, or it may be

00:48:26.640 –> 00:48:43.440
Ray Ferreira: You know, developing some sort of a message that goes out into the public or a way that you appear in public, but in engaging people on the inside. In process. Most of my work has been with mid sized organizations of

00:48:44.550 –> 00:48:47.940
Ray Ferreira: 50 to 500 I’m calling that mid size it’s defined a small but

00:48:50.010 –> 00:49:01.860
Ray Ferreira: And and then you know fortune 500 organizations with thousands and in each of those we tend to look for both a kind of a horizontal

00:49:02.700 –> 00:49:10.320
Ray Ferreira: Broadening of perspective behavioral economics tells us that there’s this heuristic called the IKEA effect.

00:49:10.830 –> 00:49:24.540
Ray Ferreira: And that is if I’m engaged in building something I’m going to like that product better. So what we would look to do is engage as many of the story owners as possible around an organization at a high level.

00:49:25.680 –> 00:49:30.720
Ray Ferreira: You know, those, those people that own you know the sales and marketing those people that

00:49:31.350 –> 00:49:47.190
Ray Ferreira: that own the public image those people that own manufacturing and and research and development and so on and get them engaged in developing that story. You also want to hear from people. And this is where in a marketing environment.

00:49:48.990 –> 00:49:58.830
Ray Ferreira: Where I was it tended to to get difficult because we were accustomed to making wonderful stories and at first you need to dig for the real stories.

00:49:59.100 –> 00:50:04.170
Ray Ferreira: If an employer brand is going to be real. You need to understand what’s going on. The, the positives and the negatives.

00:50:04.530 –> 00:50:16.860
Ray Ferreira: And so you’re looking for stories of success from your high performing high potentials and and get a good group of them together that can can help build some stories and and provide some insights

00:50:17.310 –> 00:50:20.250
Ray Ferreira: But you also want to hear from those people that don’t feel

00:50:20.730 –> 00:50:32.400
Ray Ferreira: Like they’re understood or engaged as much as they should be. And sometimes you find those in in your diversity groups and sometimes you find those in your younger employees. Your newer employees.

00:50:33.240 –> 00:50:44.490
Ray Ferreira: And you go to those those stories as well. And then we need to pull that pull that together into a cohesive story. And one of the ways to do that is to kind of

00:50:44.970 –> 00:51:05.640
Ray Ferreira: work toward a message map and that is kind of a table that organizes your segments, your different types of employees or different types of candidates and the, the kinds of messaging that might hit those people at any different given time in the in the journey so

00:51:06.630 –> 00:51:12.990
Lori Golden: That’s awesome. I want to get. We’ve got some really great questions coming through the chat at one address them.

00:51:13.290 –> 00:51:22.650
Lori Golden: Yeah, measuring a question about and I want to end with Brian’s question about kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. He asked specifically

00:51:23.580 –> 00:51:33.930
Lori Golden: Though, so can we create good employees through great synergy or do great employees make good great synergy. I just want to go out with that. So if you guys wanted

00:51:33.930 –> 00:51:36.570
Lori Golden: To tell other questions that have come through Matty’s question.

00:51:36.870 –> 00:51:42.690
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I’ll take Maddie is really quickly so totally understand it understand

00:51:43.500 –> 00:51:51.510
Rafael Marcus: Like I totally understand. It’s totally understandable, what you’re asking here that it’s overwhelming to figure out how to best measure success of branding efforts and where to start.

00:51:51.870 –> 00:52:01.110
Rafael Marcus: Um, any suggestions on resources to help off the right foot. So, um, you know, forgive me on the obviously a little biased, but I really do a lot of sorry what’s up.

00:52:01.680 –> 00:52:06.120
Lori Golden: I was gonna say frame the question so that when we’re answering it that ever videos in case they

00:52:06.120 –> 00:52:07.440
Lori Golden: Yeah yeah yeah

00:52:08.430 –> 00:52:21.570
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, just read it out loud so um so Maddie, um, you know, and for everybody else. It’s a great question. It’s probably on a lot of people’s minds. I’m a bit biased. I’m both by experience. And because I really do believe in it.

00:52:22.590 –> 00:52:32.670
Rafael Marcus: But let’s assume that most people here in ta ta teams are using LinkedIn to source candidates and often

00:52:33.210 –> 00:52:39.840
Rafael Marcus: Not always, but we often see the more passive candidates are often a bit higher quality, not always. Sometimes applicants are fantastic.

00:52:40.620 –> 00:52:49.590
Rafael Marcus: But generally, the greater population is going to be passive not in this moment, as we know, things are changing at the moment. But generally, and when we get back to normal.

00:52:50.010 –> 00:53:02.010
Rafael Marcus: Um, what I would say. Maddie is the main metric that I use. Well, there’s to my true north of did this. Is this working or not.

00:53:02.460 –> 00:53:08.100
Rafael Marcus: Is did my email response rates go up across the recruiters for the audience’s that I’m targeting

00:53:08.910 –> 00:53:21.150
Rafael Marcus: And in the next webinar we’re going to go into, like, how to bring this to market. And I’m going to go into way more details with that. But basically arm is my in mail response rates going up.

00:53:21.630 –> 00:53:28.290
Rafael Marcus: And it is, it’s probably a result of the other key metric that really matters which is engagement.

00:53:28.950 –> 00:53:41.010
Rafael Marcus: So are you generating engagement with the right audiences. Make sure you can be able to prove it, which is why I love LinkedIn, the reporting on sponsored content on LinkedIn is amazing because it gives you what companies, people are clicking from

00:53:41.610 –> 00:53:47.580
Rafael Marcus: What job titles, they have what your experience. They are. It’s the demographic information is fantastic. So you can

00:53:48.000 –> 00:53:55.590
Rafael Marcus: Actually align that to the way your recruiters are performing, which again in LinkedIn recruiter, you can see what companies are they in mailing what

00:53:55.950 –> 00:54:02.670
Rafael Marcus: Positions, are they feeling that kind of stuff. And essentially what you can say is, is the is the engagement hitting the right audience and if it is

00:54:03.360 –> 00:54:10.230
Rafael Marcus: The recruiters email response rates should be going up and that’s a statistic that is typically significant

00:54:11.070 –> 00:54:14.610
Rafael Marcus: Which I know from having been on the back end at LinkedIn seeing all the data there.

00:54:15.420 –> 00:54:33.690
Rafael Marcus: So we know that more engagement leads to get a response rates. So my recommendation would be to increase engagement with the key target super narrow audience that you need to get more responses from so and coming to

00:54:35.670 –> 00:54:41.700
Rafael Marcus: Somebody else asked the question, Caitlin asked a question about buy in and having a hard time it wasn’t in the shadows in the Q AMP a

00:54:41.940 –> 00:54:52.350
Rafael Marcus: Having a hard time getting buy in and getting budget and asked. She basically asked what steps can be taken to, you know, do a smaller thing to prove success.

00:54:52.980 –> 00:55:00.270
Rafael Marcus: It goes hand in hand with what I was just saying if you can get a little bit of budget to drive to a super, super narrow audience.

00:55:00.630 –> 00:55:13.290
Rafael Marcus: And create engagement that’s meaningful and valuable by providing good content that’s interesting, not just we have jobs and we’re great culture and like, not that. But we have great technology and here’s what our people do with it and

00:55:14.760 –> 00:55:20.790
Rafael Marcus: Then you can you can track did this increase response rates or did it increase applications, if that’s what your

00:55:21.210 –> 00:55:25.950
Rafael Marcus: CFO or chief people officer has a metric in mind that that’s the number that they want to see.

00:55:26.370 –> 00:55:37.080
Rafael Marcus: And sometimes you’ll have to dance with you know the people in charge. And if, even though you know engagement. The most important thing, but they say applicants. It’s the most boring thing. Okay. Then we show the increase in applicants and giving her

00:55:37.080 –> 00:55:38.400
Rafael Marcus: Budget, um,

00:55:38.550 –> 00:55:45.180
Rafael Marcus: So, so, yeah. So that, that’s my answer to you, Maddie and Caitlin. I hope that makes sense.

00:55:45.660 –> 00:55:46.560
Ray Ferreira: Yeah, on that.

00:55:48.870 –> 00:55:55.830
Ray Ferreira: On that note, I mean the challenge with going small isn’t so much on getting the discovery done and getting something put in place. It’s measuring the results from it.

00:55:56.100 –> 00:56:02.160
Ray Ferreira: Right. And if the results are going to be small scale, you don’t have the numbers for for for quantitative results that you can say

00:56:02.550 –> 00:56:11.520
Ray Ferreira: Without a doubt this this improve what is not just a vanity metric. We didn’t just get more followers. From this we got more candidates, not just more engagement.

00:56:12.450 –> 00:56:27.090
Ray Ferreira: So you may need to create some performance indicators that tolerate a little bit of anecdotal discussion with hiring managers with, you know, with HR leaders and so on.

00:56:27.900 –> 00:56:34.140
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I always say that um the data that you’ll show or whatever should be seen as directional

00:56:34.590 –> 00:56:40.500
Rafael Marcus: Right. It’s not perfect and it never will be. And probably, if you’re gonna start smaller like we’re talking about Maddie and Caitlin

00:56:40.920 –> 00:56:56.220
Rafael Marcus: I’m you know the numbers aren’t going to be like crazy high or, you know, up into the right like crazy from a small test, but just multiply it by like 1000 or whatever the number is. And, you know,

00:56:56.280 –> 00:57:01.650
Rafael Marcus: In that direction. All right. And then you can imagine what it looks like inflated and

00:57:03.060 –> 00:57:10.500
Lori Golden: So let’s wrap up with Brian’s question because I think it’s a great one. And I want to remind everybody to come back next Thursday.

00:57:10.890 –> 00:57:21.540
Lori Golden: At noon we are going to be following up with an email with the registration information also you if you’re on this call, you’ll be getting a copy of the recording from it as well.

00:57:21.870 –> 00:57:36.840
Lori Golden: Feel free to share within your networks and bring folks to the next one, too, because we, this is a great conversation and the more interesting questions we get, the more interesting. The conversation gets. So on that note, Brian asked again, real quickly.

00:57:38.760 –> 00:57:46.230
Lori Golden: Do we create good employees with a high synergy environment, or the other way around. Is it the

00:57:47.070 –> 00:57:52.500
Lori Golden: Is it the good people create the highest energy, environment, I definitely think both of course

00:57:53.340 –> 00:58:08.040
Lori Golden: But I have spoken to many, many surveyed many, many people and have experienced this in my own regard that I could you know I am willing to give more of myself 110% of myself.

00:58:08.910 –> 00:58:20.760
Lori Golden: You know, in an environment where I’m trusted I’m empowered, where there is that synergy and and very tribal team environment almost versus the old school kind of hierarchical

00:58:21.390 –> 00:58:28.680
Lori Golden: Pyramid style model where people everybody feels like they’re immersed and engaged in what the purpose of the company is

00:58:28.890 –> 00:58:29.700
Lori Golden: So, so

00:58:30.090 –> 00:58:37.860
Lori Golden: Many people can say, hey, I’ve given 70% did fine in my job, but I wasn’t completely and totally fully vested

00:58:38.160 –> 00:58:45.750
Lori Golden: Because I didn’t feel that the synergy of the company was there the culture was cemented and and that you know that engagement existed.

00:58:46.230 –> 00:58:56.340
Lori Golden: But then I went to accompany be and gave 120% of myself because those things did exist. So that’s my passionate answer. It’s kind of one of the things that I’ve

00:58:56.610 –> 00:59:06.150
Lori Golden: I’ve tried it and it’s not some it’s very difficult to measure, of course, but it’s something that I’ve, you know, kept close tabs on throughout my experience if rapper right want to add to that.

00:59:09.000 –> 00:59:17.460
Ray Ferreira: Um, yeah. So, so, yeah, it’s, it’s a little bit of both. If you, if you use your employer brand as a recruitment brand.

00:59:18.000 –> 00:59:24.240
Ray Ferreira: You’re going to, you’re going to have a belief that you need to replace the group of people that you’re inside right now.

00:59:25.140 –> 00:59:30.150
Ray Ferreira: In order to improve your organization. And that’s why it’s so important to recognize the full scope.

00:59:30.480 –> 00:59:43.890
Ray Ferreira: Of an employer brand is to engage and create enthusiasm, not just rah rah rah, but also understand the challenges that employees have and demonstrate that we can move beyond those challenges together.

00:59:44.430 –> 00:59:56.640
Ray Ferreira: So, so that improvement in internal engagement that that connection between, you know, between an employee and the value chain that they serve.

00:59:57.540 –> 01:00:02.430
Ray Ferreira: Is going to get that organic improvement in your organization. Meanwhile,

01:00:03.150 –> 01:00:14.040
Ray Ferreira: Building on that your stories going outward are going to be are going to attract the right people. You, you, you may not hire all people. You can’t be attracted to everyone, but at least you’ll be attracting

01:00:14.520 –> 01:00:25.170
Ray Ferreira: And retaining the right people in your organization. And that’s going to have a long term move, but it’s it’s right steering an ocean liner. So it takes time to do all of that.

01:00:26.370 –> 01:00:30.270
Ray Ferreira: Bottom line is we have to talk to all audiences and talk about the right things.

01:00:31.710 –> 01:00:32.550
Ray Ferreira: I don’t know if that helps.

01:00:32.880 –> 01:00:34.320
Ray Ferreira: A great question. Big

01:00:34.860 –> 01:00:36.270
Rafael Marcus: Last thought of.

01:00:36.300 –> 01:00:42.510
Rafael Marcus: This road racing and this is might be on some people’s minds Employer branding does not change Glassdoor reviews.

01:00:43.530 –> 01:00:55.530
Rafael Marcus: Last reviews change because of how the company treats its people. So if somebody comes to you and says, you’re in charge of Employer branding maker Glassdoor reviews go up and tell them you you can

01:00:57.120 –> 01:00:58.800
Rafael Marcus: Basically, the day after

01:01:00.780 –> 01:01:04.080
Lori Golden: So I want to thank our panelists. Thank you guys so much raft and Ray.

01:01:04.470 –> 01:01:14.160
Lori Golden: Ray, for joining. Thank you. All of our attendees who joined again next Thursday. We’re here at noon, we’re going to dive in on the fun stuff the messaging, the content creation.

01:01:14.880 –> 01:01:21.540
Lori Golden: All kinds of creative stories for you. We’re also going to be sending out a follow up email with a raise. Take away the

01:01:21.960 –> 01:01:26.280
Lori Golden: Discovery tree. And we actually I think we may drop it in the chat as well.

01:01:26.820 –> 01:01:40.140
Lori Golden: Where everyone will also be getting registration information for next week’s really appreciate you joining. If you have specific questions jot them down and we’ll get to them next week. This has been fun and I look forward to doing it again. Thank you all.

01:01:40.890 –> 01:01:41.730
Ray Ferreira: Thanks, everyone.

01:01:43.380 –> 01:01:43.800
Thanks, everyone.

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Adrienne Smith

Adrienne Smith

Adrienne Smith is a content strategy consultant working with high-growth businesses on their brand messaging, content strategy, and content creation. A digital nomad, she's exploring the world's cultures and cuisines as she works.

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