In many ways, employer branding is like marketing. It requires a clear, consistent message about who you are as an employer. It also requires creating targeted content that speaks to your message.
So, where to start?
In Part 2 of our 3-part series on Employer Branding, we dive into crafting your messaging and creating content that reflects your employer brand. We learned from employer branding experts Rafael Marcus and James Ellis, as well as our very own Lori Golden, Head of Elastic Recruiting at Comeet.
They shared their perspective and their advice on creating the content that best represents your employer brand.
(You can catch Part 1, on the Discovery Phase of employer branding, here)
Video: Creating Content That Represents Your Employer Brand
Transcript: Zoomside Chat on Creating Content for Your Employer Brand
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Comeet Webinar: Hello everyone.
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Comeet Webinar: Hi everyone joining today. Thank you for taking part in our second part of this three part series.
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Comeet Webinar: On Employer branding, we’re going to be talking today about crafting your messaging and creating your content around your Employer branding. This is again part two, and a three part series, but don’t worry if you didn’t join Part one
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Comeet Webinar: We’re going to have a discussion that can totally stand on its own.
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Comeet Webinar: So if you’re just joining it looks like people are still trickling in. We’re going to take a minute to kick off, but this is
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Comeet Webinar: Our second episode in kind of a three part series on Employer branding. We’re talking content creation and messaging today. And please remember that this is a discussion. This is not us lecturing to you. So please start to think about your questions your notes.
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Comeet Webinar: Any thoughts, you might have or want to bring up or want us to discuss during the next hour. So just start to think about your questions as we wait
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Comeet Webinar: Alright, let’s give it one more minute here and but if everyone is is just tuning in here, we’re about to talk about messaging content creation for your employer brand.
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Comeet Webinar: Building off of our discussion last week on the discovery phase of your employer brand and how to cement that brand. So we’re diving into kind of the next the next step in that process. And please start thinking about any questions you may have, or any thoughts that you want us to
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Comeet Webinar: To think about during, during this discussion.
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Comeet Webinar: All right, let’s just give one more minute for people to join and then we’ll kick off.
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Rafael Marcus: Adrian, it looks like somebody has their hand raised. I don’t know if that’s a mistake.
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Comeet Webinar: I see that. Let’s see. Tammy.
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James Ellis: Tammy.
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James Ellis: Skin already
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Rafael Marcus: Later, so I want to make sure so
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Comeet Webinar: Yeah, I think, Tammy. I think that you’re allowed to chat. Let me just make sure here. Yeah, everyone is allowed to chat. So if you have any specific questions, just feel free to drop them into the chat. Okay.
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Comeet Webinar: Awesome. So one more time before you kick off. Thank you for joining. We’re talking about messaging and content creation for your employer brand today. And please feel free to drop any questions into the chat. As we discussed, we’ll try and get to them all.
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Comeet Webinar: And I’m going to pass this off to Lori to kick it off.
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Lori Golden: Thank you. Adrian. Welcome, all. I thank you so much for joining commits, our third episode in our talent strategy webinars. We’re doing this every week on Thursdays at noon.
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Lori Golden: And this is the second part of our three part series on employer brand like Adrian mentioned, our first
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Lori Golden: Part of the employer brand series last week was around discovery and understanding your company culture and really extracting who you are as a company and who you want to be as a company
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Lori Golden: And don’t worry if you were not able to attend last week, we do have all of the recordings posted on our website. Adrian will pop that into the chat so you can access
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Lori Golden: Past recordings of these of these episodes. So thank you again for joining. I want to. I’m here with James to Ellis from university and referral Marcus, who works for IBM consulting
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Lori Golden: And I want to just give you a quick intro for myself and then I’ll pass it off to them to intro I’m Lori golden I am head of committed elastic recruiting
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Lori Golden: And I have about 22 years experience in talent acquisition recruiting and all facets of fast growth scaling. So again, welcome and James If you’d like to introduce yourself.
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James Ellis: Or James Ellis employer brand director University. I am the employer brand nerd. I know that because if you google employer brand nerd. I’m anywhere from four to seven of the first page responses. So if Google says, that’s the thing.
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James Ellis: It must be true. We all know that to be a kid. So I’ve got a podcast called talent cast. I have a weekly newsletter called employer brand headlines. All I do is think about employer brand. So I can’t wait to talk about wait employer brand. Hold on. The Walk webinar. Gotta go by.
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James Ellis: It’s gonna be like this for the our folks. So, enjoy your lunch.
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Lori Golden: Thank you. Thank you, James. I think we all need a laugh. Nowadays I RAF. Go ahead.
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Rafael Marcus: Hey everybody I’m Raphael Raphael Marcus I run my own consultancy and I before that I worked at LinkedIn for a few years, basically building and selling employer brand strategy to LinkedIn clients.
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Rafael Marcus: With the sales team. And after that I led Employer branding for the
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Rafael Marcus: I think technically officially with Lori in the same company the fastest growing software and press company ever UI path, which is a RK company.
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Rafael Marcus: And after that I decided, you know, having the client side and the, the more expertise side or the sales side I have both sides. So when I create my own consultancy and how companies have more companies than just one
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Rafael Marcus: And I’m clearly a James else fanboy because I copied his haircut recently.
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James Ellis: It’s only Brunette Women in bold men. Here we are well
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James Ellis: A pale.
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Rafael Marcus: Picture.
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Rafael Marcus: Lori.
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Comeet Webinar: A lost Lori.
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Comeet Webinar: Lori. I think that you had your cell phone if you can hear us on so you can do AUDIO I’m in a while she’s good.
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Rafael Marcus: If we don’t get our. Do you want to just read some questions. Awesome.
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Comeet Webinar: Yeah, I was gonna say. So while we
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Comeet Webinar: Wait for Lori to come back on. Maybe we can kick it off.
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Comeet Webinar: With messaging, right. So we had talked about the discovery phase of segmenting your employer brand last week and kind of one of the next steps. Once the discoveries completed his crafting your messaging. So how do you get started doing that and how do you approach the process.
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Rafael Marcus: NGOs are
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James Ellis: Here i mean i employer brand one of those things where everybody kind of walks in with their own framework of thought right employer brand is so vague.
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James Ellis: And conceptual and abstract and it’s, you know, some people think your brand is your culture or your pillars, your culture. Some people think
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James Ellis: It’s your values, something and think it’s the stuff on the news. Some people think it’s the stuff you say in Glassdoor some people
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James Ellis: Everybody has a different sense of this thing that we call employer brand. So let’s start with some very basic definition. So the employer brand is what everybody thinks it’s like to work for you.
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James Ellis: Based on all the experience all the touch points and it’s you got great customer service. That’s an impact you guys your CFO is in the news for grabbing somebody else’s. But that’s going to impact you’re going to
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James Ellis: You have recruiters to spam the heck out of everybody that’s going to impact your hiring managers. Here’s the phone during the interview, that’s going to impact. So it’s everything. It’s all this stuff so
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James Ellis: Once you kind of distill that into an understanding of this is what makes us specifically us what is makes us unique. What makes us real that is not
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James Ellis: Let’s call it table stakes marketing, you know, for example, I love seeing the advertisements for hospitals where they say we care about our patients. Well,
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James Ellis: Isn’t that the job. I mean, is there a hospital somewhere that says, Yeah, we don’t care about a patient’s whatever we’re just here to move these around.
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James Ellis: You have you everybody says that, like, I’ve worked with Pharma and they all say, yeah, we’re innovative and we’re trying to save the world. But get that that’s that’s what the job is you have to get beyond that because if everybody’s saying that
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James Ellis: It’s not meaningfully interesting are different. There’s no way someone makes a choice.
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James Ellis: So once you kind of scrape past that stuff and figure out what makes you unique. You have to start to spell it out and make it more granular so if a company x says we’re all about.
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James Ellis: Pick it, whatever it is. Work life balance status prestige ethics gender equality, I don’t care. It’s, it’s any number of things once you say it. That’s great. Stick a poster on the wall and call it a day. Oh wait, that’s never went to work. What you have to do is turn them into messaging.
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James Ellis: Real right stories are real taglines aren’t real stories are real. I do a person who did this.
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James Ellis: I knew why that happened. I understand all the backstory around that stuff. The reason why we all think of Nordstrom is the number one customer service place is because someone wants. Try to exchange a product that Nordstrom never sold
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James Ellis: And Nordstrom took the return that is a story. It’s a
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James Ellis: Story, but it is a story that nobody goes, I remember that story I’ve heard that story. It’s a story that shared. It’s a story that’s passed around
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James Ellis: It’s real. And it gets granular it gets meaningfully different that you can tell that story.
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James Ellis: In your company to say, what does it sound like to your data scientist. What does it sound like to your coders what it sounds like to your sales people. What does it sound like to your HR people. What does it sound like to
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James Ellis: Did it it it and you tell those stories to make it real. So your messaging starts at a core concept.
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James Ellis: But that’s just an idea. It’s just an amorphous kind of thing. It’s a nice to have. It’s a north star that you can’t touch turning into something you can touch turning into something that sounds like something a human does is where you really get started.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, and I would I would kind of add that those stories can be synonymous with or, you know, basically.
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Rafael Marcus: Be explained as proof points, right. So you have this feeling that James is talking about, about
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Rafael Marcus: You know what it’s like to be there, what it’s like to live there work there from the inside and the outside
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Rafael Marcus: And a way to look at what James is talking about in terms of telling stories, is how do you prove to the world that what it feels like or what you wanted the world to think it feels like it prove that it does.
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Rafael Marcus: And I think that’s kind of what I’m saying. I’m also add
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Rafael Marcus: And, you know, I’ll take a bit of a different angle. The James I think compliments it quite well which is I actually in an effort to keep things very simple
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Rafael Marcus: But deep in terms of messaging, which I believe this. This question was about is I like to use a very, you know, brief model called the Golden Circle. I’m
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Rafael Marcus: Quickly by raise of hands. And you can have your raise your hand in here, Adrian. Can you explain to everybody. How to resume. I’m just curious if we can see by raise of hands, who here has heard of Simon cynics Golden Circle.
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Comeet Webinar: I i’m not sure i think on the bottom of your screen. You can I see some people are starting to do it.
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Comeet Webinar: Might be able to click on the bottom of your video.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah, so I can
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Rafael Marcus: Now I can
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Rafael Marcus: Watch. Alright, cool.
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Rafael Marcus: So for those of you who have heard of it, bear with me for two seconds and Adrian. I think you have the visual right yeah so
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Rafael Marcus: This is basically what Simon snack talks about a great TED talk. There’s a five minute version and a 10 minute version if you want to Google it.
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Rafael Marcus: He’s a you know world, world renowned marketer advertiser and consultant and essentially he explains the Golden Circle more and marketing in general and branding in general.
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Rafael Marcus: I basically use it for Employer branding and marketing and messaging that way. And essentially what he explains. Is that similar to what James is saying about
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Rafael Marcus: Like a hospital that says, you know, we care for our patients.
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Rafael Marcus: That’s like what everybody, every hospital does, right. So instead of talking about the what, which is at the bottom, which is how a lot of companies will try to attract people as they talk about the career opportunity or
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Rafael Marcus: Even more simply and not a great idea, just a job right just putting out, putting out job postings and advertising and say, hey, we have we have this job openings job, only the job open
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Rafael Marcus: That’s talking about the what. Right. The, the, quote unquote product that you’re trying to sell.
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Rafael Marcus: And that’s how some companies do it, but the best companies according to science Anakin, you know, I would say that this strategy worked for me.
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Rafael Marcus: They actually rarely talk about the what and they spend most of their messaging on the Y. So your brand essence in this case would be your employer brand essence.
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Rafael Marcus: And using that as kind of the filter the lens that all the of all your content is kind of told drew, and then also the how. Right. So how is business done how
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Rafael Marcus: How do people behave. So that’s like the culture. What’s your tech stack look like, what are the people like what are your values, your employer value proposition which is and I’m sure James will
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Rafael Marcus: Can expand on this is different than your employer brand, right. Those are the things that you’re promising to people that you know that work at your company.
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Rafael Marcus: What are your. How do you interact with your customers, etc, etc. So I usually focus on the why and the how and only after maybe with the right audience and messaging really specifically to that niche.
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Rafael Marcus: Then maybe I will drop in the what if we need to really build pipeline or
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Rafael Marcus: You know, boost job applications or whatever it is, but you’ll rarely hear from the work I do with clients. So you’ll rarely hear about like the actual like job posting
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Rafael Marcus: What people do in the job is really valuable. That’s a how but the actual job posting all that stuff is rarely talked about when I when I build strategy.
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James Ellis: Because that’s the recruiters shop to kind of take this conceptual idea of what your brand is and make it real to that candidate right there in front of them to make it say
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James Ellis: Look, if you’re going to be a nurse or you’re going to be an electrician or you’re going to be or whatever the heck it is. What does all this conceptual stuff mean to you and connecting that time is really
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James Ellis: A big part of their job, which is why recruiters employer brands they should work together more and better and that’s a whole other probably a whole other set of webinars we could probably do.
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James Ellis: But, and because I know that that’s always a challenge because those are two, you know, it’s like sales and marketing, don’t ever get along well. Same thing here, I would say, though, that, you know, in a lot of ways, the VP ends up being that north star that idea of is
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James Ellis: offering some people that offering is a deeper why we don’t. We’ve been trained for years that millennials those crazy kids who are now 36 years old.
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James Ellis: That these crazy kids. All they care about is purpose. All they care about is meaning. And while statistically that’s true all 22 year olds won’t care about
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James Ellis: meaning and purpose and every 21 year old gets out of college.
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James Ellis: World. That’s my dad thought that he’s old but that explains why he wore the hippie clothes he wanted to change the world. So whatever
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James Ellis: The thing is that beyond that some people don’t care about the purpose at that level. So people care about prestige right people who work at a hedge fund.
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James Ellis: Are probably driven not by the the urge to save the world or save the whales or save the trees are safe anything they’re there to make a pile of cash and good for them because I’m not here to begrudge anybody you know, wanting to make money.
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James Ellis: People don’t go to Red Cross to make a lot of money. They have a purpose. So you have to define what that thing is. And then you kind of bolster up with all
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James Ellis: That you know that you write the tech stack all the ancillary materials, the collateral the supporting evidence that says this claim we make is actually true. And you can prove it 700 ways
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James Ellis: And then of course you’ve got a glue on all about
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James Ellis: Yeah, how do you get staff to talk about that stuff. How do you make sure that when staff talks about what it’s like to work there it aligns to that MVP that core idea.
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James Ellis: But you get to translate it to their languages which which is really a candidate wants no one cares about Mark. They want to know the real story.
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Rafael Marcus: Yeah. That’s actually a great way to actually address John’s question so john asked, can you talk about post coven messaging. He says, it seems like every company is taking the same approach and that’s
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Rafael Marcus: Like john you basically answered your own question. In a way, and we’ll, we’ll pick it apart and dive in a little bit.
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Rafael Marcus: Basically what the first thing I would tell any company if they’re messing about coven 19 is one. Be careful.
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Rafael Marcus: To don’t overdo it. And three, it better be authentic and real. And if if a company is just saying like putting up pictures of people working from home and those people actually miserable because their health insurance is shit and they’re struggling, you know,
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Rafael Marcus: Verified mentally or start for scared like that’s not good. Then just don’t message up. All right, like if your employee base is not adapting well or is under extreme stress or pressure
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Rafael Marcus: So on and so forth. Don’t message about it. It’s better not to then to fake it and do anything that’s in authentic. That goes for all content in my opinion.
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Rafael Marcus: However, with coven it’s extraordinarily sensitive and the US extremely risky, you’re, you’re walking around landmines, so I’m
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Rafael Marcus: John you’re absolutely right. A lot of companies do seem to be doing the same which is a risk and if what they’re saying is authentic to them.
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Rafael Marcus: The risk isn’t that big right then it just kind of looks like what you’re saying. JOHN, it looks like everybody’s doing the same thing.
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Rafael Marcus: That’s not as bad as this one company looks like they’re totally like blowing it out there asking, you know, being full of shit and all that stuff. So I would just say be careful. Be thoughtful. Um, and
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Rafael Marcus: If there’s not a lot. Whole lot of really good authentic stuff happening right now that you can pull and talk about then plan something for the longer term, right, like
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Rafael Marcus: Like, see how things are evolving and make note of those things and then maybe at the end of this whenever that is or later on when it does feel appropriate when you’ve really got your thoughts together and feel like there’s less of a risk. That’s a good time to do it too.
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Rafael Marcus: So just be careful, is what I’d say, which is probably pretty obvious, but one of the one of the more important points is if you don’t have anything good don’t don’t share anything about it. Stay away.
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James Ellis: You know how there’s that Stages of Grief is the denial, anger, and I think there’s a whole kind of set of stages of US coping with code it right there was the
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James Ellis: Week one it’s crazy working from home. Oh look, it’s a zoom background that does goofy things like we were just kind of
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James Ellis: Try and laugh through this process and we’re kind of hoping maybe this only last couple weeks and maybe it’s just going to be a quick and we can hold our breath through it.
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James Ellis: And then like Week two or three kind of went. Alright, this is real, this is happening. And then, week four and five, when I think the end of week three as we hit what I refer to as peak inspiration.
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James Ellis: The Marriott video started coming at all these videos about how we’re going to help. We’re going to do what I can. We’re going to sacrifice, which is great, which is all valid and everything.
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James Ellis: That rap said is 100% right, it has to be authentic, but I think we’ve hit peak inspiration right inspiration is kind of a
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James Ellis: It’s too sweet chocolate. It’s nice and little bits. It’s nice now and then, but you can’t live on it. And I think we’re moving now towards once. What happens after the inspiration. It’s about
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James Ellis: What does it mean to work here. What does it mean to get the work done. And it doesn’t matter where you’re talking about. It doesn’t matter if you’re working at home or you have to go to a
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James Ellis: Essential job of some sort. What does it mean to work here. So the coven underlines. A lot of these ideas because and here’s the unstated truth. I think
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James Ellis: Employer brand is the absolute go to PR crisis move when the, when the brand hits the rocks and something bad happens. Let’s wheel out the staff because let’s let their shiny happy faces.
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James Ellis: overshadow the thing, the CEO did right you got a pizza company and you said some very interesting, interesting complicated things about
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James Ellis: Particular players on the football field. Let’s get rid of that do let’s bring in the people who make the pizza. Let’s bring in the people who own the franchise’s
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James Ellis: You run a bank and made a bunch of fake accounts. Let’s get rid of the marketing let’s bring in the tellers. Hey, smiley people they’re doing the job play your brand has always been the book, go to PR move
00:19:50.760 –> 00:19:55.620
James Ellis: For crisis and we’ll welcome to the world’s biggest crisis. So we everybody is leaning hard on
00:19:55.890 –> 00:20:05.700
James Ellis: This is our people. This is what we’re doing. So I’m not shocked at all. The question is what happens after that what happens once you get past the inspiration, you kind of redefine what your brand is and who it is for
00:20:06.120 –> 00:20:18.780
James Ellis: That stuff didn’t change. It just kind of get amplified because some suddenly, nobody cares. Here’s a story on. I hope I can share. So there’s a friend of mine who works in a very large regional grocery chain. I won’t name the name because everybody knows who it is. It’s down South.
00:20:19.890 –> 00:20:23.580
James Ellis: And they said, suddenly we’re marketing used to be like, Yeah, yeah, whatever.
00:20:23.910 –> 00:20:31.260
James Ellis: Marketing is all over them saying, how can we help. How can we help. How can we help because marketing realizes pushing coupons and coven ain’t gonna work.
00:20:31.560 –> 00:20:36.480
James Ellis: But talking about the people who work here, leaving on some inspiration learning on some personal stories.
00:20:37.230 –> 00:20:45.510
James Ellis: Plays like crazy. It’s the question is what happens once things. Calm down. How do you leverage that for your employer brand. And how do you leverage that relationship with marketing for your employer brand.
00:20:46.110 –> 00:20:48.870
Rafael Marcus: Right, yeah, we will get through this will be over.
00:20:49.380 –> 00:20:50.340
Rafael Marcus: One day when
00:20:50.910 –> 00:20:58.620
Rafael Marcus: You know all the messaging. So I just want to address Teresa, if that’s okay. Adrian, or she asked a couple questions. So, Theresa. Your first question was,
00:20:59.430 –> 00:21:12.240
Rafael Marcus: some creative ways to launch a brand, right. Unfortunately we do not have enough time to talk about that. And one is because I would have to ask you to follow up questions or get into a very specific example that
00:21:12.270 –> 00:21:13.020
James Ellis: May not provoke them.
00:21:13.860 –> 00:21:20.010
Comeet Webinar: I also want to jump in and say that that’s why zoom side chat next week is about right. It’s about activating your messaging so
00:21:20.280 –> 00:21:21.030
James Ellis: We kept the same
00:21:21.750 –> 00:21:22.860
James Ellis: Agent Captain segue.
00:21:24.180 –> 00:21:28.320
Rafael Marcus: So, so, Theresa apologies, we want to answer that one today. Obviously, we can set up time
00:21:28.590 –> 00:21:35.160
Rafael Marcus: Privately later if you’re interested. But I’ll answer your, your second question, James. I’m sure can add some to which is
00:21:35.490 –> 00:21:48.120
Rafael Marcus: What are some tactical ways to cultivate the stories. If you aren’t in PR or edit or editorial savvy. So I think there’s two parts to this question, which is one. How do you get the stories and to how do you tell them
00:21:49.200 –> 00:22:04.080
Rafael Marcus: How to get them. I would say being PR editorial savvy would help, but I don’t think it’s that necessary in terms of capturing them. Right. Yes. What I would do, or encourage someone to do is pretend they’re journalist.
00:22:05.730 –> 00:22:10.770
Rafael Marcus: And go out and talk to people, right, both in individual settings in group settings.
00:22:11.130 –> 00:22:15.480
Rafael Marcus: And that’s, you know, there’s a whole like strategy, especially from university. They do this really well.
00:22:15.780 –> 00:22:25.320
Rafael Marcus: And there’s a whole project around that and how to do that and and all that stuff, which we won’t go into the details, but, um, basically talking to your people and also seeing
00:22:25.650 –> 00:22:35.250
Rafael Marcus: You know what they’re saying. Without you talk to them. So if your company uses slack. Go to the culture channel or whatever other channels. There are that a lot of people participate in
00:22:36.240 –> 00:22:47.730
Rafael Marcus: And and and you know, see what you can read from there and that could lead you down certain paths of, you know, talking to certain people, whatever, if it’s email, you know, see what leaders are sending over email.
00:22:48.120 –> 00:23:03.120
Rafael Marcus: For people joke around and stuff and all that. I’m in terms of writing the stories are telling stories which may be a little bit closer to your question. Um, if you are not a PR editorial savvy as you’re saying, Teresa.
00:23:04.320 –> 00:23:16.410
Rafael Marcus: There are plenty of low cost contractors out there fiber.com, uh, you know, and obviously these people need work and are usually quite good. So, you know, that’s always an option.
00:23:17.580 –> 00:23:28.020
Rafael Marcus: Otherwise, you know, if you, if you’re not a good writer, focus on podcasts and video right if you’re not good at producing video. There are some really great
00:23:29.220 –> 00:23:40.770
Rafael Marcus: Low cost monthly subscription platforms that allow you give you the tools, you know, drag and drop and simple stuff that allow you to create really beautiful videos or or more brand.
00:23:41.850 –> 00:23:50.820
Rafael Marcus: centric videos or more branded that look really professional rather than, you know, raw but Roz also really good if you do it right, so
00:23:51.840 –> 00:23:54.540
Rafael Marcus: I hope that helps. Teresa, James. I’m sure you have something to add.
00:23:55.080 –> 00:24:00.960
James Ellis: Yeah, I think it’s interesting because when I took over Groupon. We took exactly that same approach and I and I looked at the
00:24:01.290 –> 00:24:04.950
James Ellis: Presents a pretty big company 6000 people at the time, and they had data scientists and
00:24:05.340 –> 00:24:12.300
James Ellis: Programmers and sales people and all these different things that I’m like I don’t like logistics, the level of logistics. They understood I couldn’t conceive of and so
00:24:12.720 –> 00:24:19.770
James Ellis: When we did an article we did exactly we talked about. We sat down. We interviewed them. We took our notes back with three read them. We looked at them.
00:24:20.100 –> 00:24:22.590
James Ellis: And I don’t think I quite understood exactly the technical detail.
00:24:22.890 –> 00:24:31.470
James Ellis: You wrote it up you handed it back to the person say it was this right like mess this up. They made some edits you went back and forth a couple times, you dropped it into a site, whatever it took
00:24:32.370 –> 00:24:42.180
James Ellis: 1012 sometimes 15 hours to put a piece of content together. And when you start to think about content is 1012 hours you kind of shy away of it. Or worse yet, you say it’s a thing. I only do once every month or two.
00:24:42.630 –> 00:24:46.710
James Ellis: I think that’s a approach. I don’t think that has to be the approach I think on some level.
00:24:46.980 –> 00:24:54.030
James Ellis: When you put a PR journalism spin on it, you lose a little that rough raw edge that you were referring to. So what we ended up doing is we built
00:24:54.330 –> 00:25:03.690
James Ellis: A Google Form. That was a survey question set of survey questions, things like where does your mom think you do all day, you know, goofy stuff, but also serious stuff. What’s the best advice you’ve ever got from a boss.
00:25:04.380 –> 00:25:14.910
James Ellis: You know how many different roles. Have you had here, you know, and we understood what our brand was we knew we couldn’t just ask any old question that got a laugh. It was about how do we write questions that lead them to tell stories.
00:25:15.240 –> 00:25:22.110
James Ellis: In their own words in their own little paragraph to say this is this. And it illustrates it highlights the brand. I’m trying to get them to
00:25:22.830 –> 00:25:31.380
James Ellis: That’s a Google form. So it’s free. And that’s easy and you push that URL to people. There’s a whole wave strategy of doing that. And as you collected at you turned it into testimonials or you turned into two profiles.
00:25:31.590 –> 00:25:40.980
James Ellis: And that with a picture from your phone. It was a very quick way. And so we ended up once we really got that machine running. And by the way, I’m not downplay how much time is getting machine like that thing.
00:25:41.370 –> 00:25:45.240
James Ellis: But if you think like a content marketer and not like a journalist. You can put put kinds of
00:25:46.170 –> 00:25:54.060
James Ellis: Every 45 minutes. And so once you do that, you start to realize if I have a choice between one big piece of content every month or two.
00:25:54.510 –> 00:25:59.970
James Ellis: I’m very limited when the stories I can tell because I need to tell a story that appeals to as many people as possible. Right. It’s kind of like
00:26:00.180 –> 00:26:04.950
James Ellis: You know sitcoms in the 80s when we only had three channels, you had to appeal to as many people as possible.
00:26:05.220 –> 00:26:11.100
James Ellis: Now, if I’m pushing out stories, every time. Anytime I feel like it’s really easy. In fact, I have hundreds at my disposal. I could tell
00:26:11.370 –> 00:26:14.550
James Ellis: Super niche stories that are specifically interested to
00:26:14.760 –> 00:26:26.250
James Ellis: African American women data scientist and I know that no one else is going to care about this story, but man history kills and it’s going to resonate with that particular audience. And it took no more time than writing the big story.
00:26:26.430 –> 00:26:37.920
James Ellis: So there are ways of approaching it. But I would recommend a what I would refer to as a content marketing approach to those stories that said stories are everywhere. They are everywhere. You simply have to start looking for them.
00:26:39.810 –> 00:26:42.660
Rafael Marcus: I Lori. Do you want to amount those questions.
00:26:44.430 –> 00:26:46.080
Lori Golden: Let me look at some questions.
00:26:49.410 –> 00:26:54.720
Lori Golden: But thank you. Adrian for handling. I was having some Wi Fi issue. So thank you for jumping on the questions and
00:26:54.960 –> 00:27:02.640
Lori Golden: We do have, we will get two more questions, but I do also want to stay on the topic as well so that we move through. I’m also seeing a lot of questions that are more
00:27:02.940 –> 00:27:11.640
Lori Golden: Like, starting with the discovery phase. So I do encourage people to go back and listen to last week’s I think a lot of those questions may get answered in that session.
00:27:13.170 –> 00:27:20.100
Lori Golden: But, uh, you know, we talked a little bit rap. You mentioned a little bit about authenticity and responding to cove it and messaging.
00:27:20.760 –> 00:27:24.420
Lori Golden: Back to the more you know high level topic of messaging.
00:27:25.080 –> 00:27:32.370
Lori Golden: You know, for your employer brand. How important is it in in determining word choice and and what that messaging looks like.
00:27:32.640 –> 00:27:46.710
Lori Golden: How important is it to be authentic and for it to resonate with your existing employees. And what happens if it doesn’t, who you’re trying to you know position yourself as what happens when that doesn’t exactly look the same as as what’s going on inside.
00:27:47.160 –> 00:27:54.870
Rafael Marcus: Um, yeah. So this is, I’ll be able to answer this pretty quickly. Um, so if it’s not authentic people will feel it.
00:27:55.740 –> 00:28:13.320
Rafael Marcus: I’m sure everybody here can tell if they’re looking at a stock photo or a regular although they’re getting better. I say, but people can feel it. So don’t try to whitewash or greenwash or anything like that. Because people feel it. And then if somebody if you’re really good at.
00:28:14.370 –> 00:28:25.950
Rafael Marcus: At using stock imagery or telling stories that are not authentic but feel authentic because there’s certainly people that are skilled that way. And I don’t mean a bad way. They’re just good at telling stories and, you know, enhancing things I’m
00:28:26.970 –> 00:28:33.810
Rafael Marcus: Be ready because or if you’re telling stories that may be outdated is her or things like that, if things have changed.
00:28:34.950 –> 00:28:46.860
Rafael Marcus: No surprise if somebody joins the company based on that and they figure out, it’s not the case. Your attrition rates and your costs and training, unless it will go through the roof and
00:28:47.490 –> 00:29:02.790
Rafael Marcus: I don’t know who will get depends on what company you’re at who will get the x, but somebody will come looking for your head or or the head recruiters head or ahead of time management, somebody is going to pay the price. If
00:29:04.140 –> 00:29:18.840
Rafael Marcus: External talent sees your company one way and when they become internal talent feel it completely different, especially at the beginning, they will feel that buyer’s remorse very, very quickly. And you know the the when employees starts a
00:29:19.980 –> 00:29:24.600
Rafael Marcus: Company and Laura, you know, Lauren, I built the orientation program at our last company.
00:29:25.860 –> 00:29:46.980
Rafael Marcus: That first impression is really important. And if it feels anything off of what they felt before they joined the rate that the probability or the chances of them turning out within six months or a year or or within 45 days even is going to be significantly higher. Um, so that’s the risk
00:29:48.030 –> 00:29:48.900
Rafael Marcus: Pretty, pretty simple.
00:29:49.680 –> 00:29:56.070
James Ellis: Yeah, you end up looking schizo franek we tell everybody where this but in reality we’re that it’s like if you’ve been on a date.
00:29:56.460 –> 00:30:06.990
James Ellis: And you get that picture on whatever platform you’re going to look at you pictures on whatever I know judgment and they look like this and you show up to the restaurant. They look like that, you’re like yeah this this date isn’t going to work out and that’s
00:30:06.990 –> 00:30:07.320
Rafael Marcus: Like
00:30:07.380 –> 00:30:16.830
James Ellis: If you felt the need to lie you clearly don’t believe in yourself enough for me to believe in you. And if you don’t know how to express who you are. That’s fine. And I think the trick is
00:30:17.160 –> 00:30:22.440
James Ellis: Not to try and pretend to be perfect all positive all spin all inspiration, all the time.
00:30:22.890 –> 00:30:31.080
James Ellis: I’m a big believer that every job posting should have a paragraph. This is why you’ll hate this job because I want to know ahead of time because it makes it feel more authentic.
00:30:31.680 –> 00:30:41.190
James Ellis: For example, if you put a pillar out there. If you put a claim out there that we’re all here for innovation, but then you forced me to go through your 4000 year old ATMs how really innovative are you exactly
00:30:41.520 –> 00:30:48.300
James Ellis: I mean that you have to live and breathe that thing. And if I don’t see it. I don’t believe it. If I tell you I’m funny and you’re not laughing at my funny.
00:30:48.540 –> 00:30:55.530
James Ellis: It’s just you have to kind of be part of it. But at the same time, you have to be able to show these are the negatives. Hey look, we’re innovative, which means
00:30:56.220 –> 00:31:07.290
James Ellis: We run fast. We don’t always know where we’re going. It’s a little chaotic. There’s, like, what’s the other side of this wonderful positive claim that you’re making. What’s the edge so to speak of that ideal.
00:31:08.640 –> 00:31:14.820
James Ellis: The more you define the edges, the more believable. The claim gets and the more people understand what it is. So, you know, here’s another one.
00:31:15.120 –> 00:31:19.770
James Ellis: Every company says we respect our people or more encourage our people to bring their whole selves to work.
00:31:20.280 –> 00:31:24.510
James Ellis: I don’t believe that for half a second. I don’t believe any company is totally cool with me showing up my shorts.
00:31:24.810 –> 00:31:35.550
James Ellis: Just because that’s who I am. That’s what I’m doing. No. You want me to dress like a professional, to some extent, you want me to show up and do my work. You don’t want me to say, you know what, it’s Wednesday, I don’t feel like working. That’s my whole self that
00:31:36.000 –> 00:31:44.460
James Ellis: What you want to be professional. I don’t believe in that stuff. Now, if they said we want you to bring your whole self to the work and this is what we mean. And this is the limits of what that looks like.
00:31:44.670 –> 00:31:48.720
James Ellis: Okay, now I get it. Now I understand it and you’re infinitely more believable because of it.
00:31:50.490 –> 00:31:50.850
00:31:52.500 –> 00:31:53.640
Rafael Marcus: Lori. Should we
00:31:54.390 –> 00:31:55.830
Rafael Marcus: Have these questions, or do you want it.
00:31:56.340 –> 00:31:58.170
Lori Golden: Let’s get that I’ve seen some good ones like
00:31:58.830 –> 00:32:01.170
Rafael Marcus: Rebecca is a good one. Can I answer that one.
00:32:01.620 –> 00:32:09.180
Rafael Marcus: Please. So Rebecca McCormick, thanks for the question asked when starting from scratch, which I know a lot of a lot of people are
00:32:09.510 –> 00:32:14.370
Rafael Marcus: I do recommend building a ground up social presence or leveraging the corporate social feeds to get in front of the consumer eyes.
00:32:15.120 –> 00:32:24.630
Rafael Marcus: To me, it really depends, which is the worst answer ever but it really does to your situation. So one of the things that it depends on which
00:32:25.200 –> 00:32:35.580
Rafael Marcus: Kind of coincides with a Chris does question about when companies should start investing in employed renter hiring someone or a team dedicated dedicated to employer brand.
00:32:35.850 –> 00:32:44.190
Rafael Marcus: So, Krista, I would say as early as possible. And then it’s what’s more than people most more important than the people in your company and bringing in great people.
00:32:45.060 –> 00:33:00.630
Rafael Marcus: I can find another answer or something more important. So I would say, from the beginning, which also will give that company, a very strong competitive advantage because even the most about companies, some of them in the world do not have somebody leading Employer branding.
00:33:01.650 –> 00:33:09.540
Rafael Marcus: So, so do it early and do it smart and from to come back to the question of starting from scratch. Let’s say you have somebody leading it
00:33:10.980 –> 00:33:27.330
Rafael Marcus: If that person. It depends on that person’s relationship or standing with mostly probably the marketing team and people in branding. So if the marketing team is snotty and think, doesn’t give a crap about Employer branding doesn’t take it seriously, which, sadly, I’ve seen a lot of
00:33:28.830 –> 00:33:33.750
Rafael Marcus: Then you’re more or less on your own. And that’s where I would say, Screw the
00:33:33.750 –> 00:33:36.420
Rafael Marcus: Corporate Social feed and really do the ground up.
00:33:36.690 –> 00:33:37.560
Rafael Marcus: Do it yourself.
00:33:38.640 –> 00:33:44.010
Rafael Marcus: Or do it with a team that does get it and believe in it. And, you know, then you can have parallel paths.
00:33:44.550 –> 00:33:54.450
Rafael Marcus: If your marketing leadership is awesome and cool and gets it like understands how important it is to bring people in that marketing.
00:33:54.810 –> 00:34:07.560
Rafael Marcus: Is not just and that there’s no you know ironclad rule that says marketing can only and should only be used to drive revenue which hiring does also, by the way, but I’m or pipeline for sales.
00:34:07.920 –> 00:34:19.170
Rafael Marcus: And if they get it. Then I partner with them and see what from the corporate social feeds you can leverage and what resources from the marketing team, you can leverage to
00:34:20.580 –> 00:34:31.620
Rafael Marcus: Help build your stories and build your presence and build the employer brand. So it really does depend to Rebecca, so I hope that’s helpful. And I know it’s not black and white.
00:34:32.670 –> 00:34:36.060
James Ellis: Yeah, I look at the opportunity that marketing doesn’t care about it. That’s a gift.
00:34:36.300 –> 00:34:48.450
James Ellis: Man it yeah it’s more work for you. But you get to own that thing you get to really embrace it and say, This is how I want to do it when marketing gets involved and I love some marketers I’m born marketer, for whatever you want to believe that
00:34:49.680 –> 00:34:56.760
James Ellis: They have a very particular way of looking at things, they look at things in a more perspective they want more leads, they want more eyeballs. They want more share voice. They want more.
00:34:56.970 –> 00:35:03.810
James Ellis: Engagement, they want more and more and more and more and more and more budgets were everything more and, you know, quality and quality and more, not the same.
00:35:04.080 –> 00:35:13.410
James Ellis: And so when marketing gets involved. It takes a very more mindset quantity mindset and applies it to employer brand and it doesn’t really quite work. It’s really
00:35:13.620 –> 00:35:19.950
James Ellis: Trying to jam around whole around peg in a square hole. It doesn’t quite fit you can pound it through and get some good work out of it.
00:35:20.490 –> 00:35:27.720
James Ellis: But if it’s just on you, you can really focus on what matters. And that’s that quality level. It’s not about appealing to a million and job applicants, it’s about
00:35:28.170 –> 00:35:41.580
James Ellis: Healing to one perfect amazing candidate who wants to fall in love with you now. That’s really where the value is. But yes, and to the earlier question. When do you start. Well first off you already did the trick is your employer brand already exists. It’s
00:35:41.610 –> 00:35:46.440
James Ellis: Already there, it’s just sitting there. The question is how intentional. Do you want to be in managing it.
00:35:46.710 –> 00:35:58.620
James Ellis: Now let’s let’s let’s Nick drop name drop here, Google did not have to invest in its employer brand for about 20 years why because it was Google and everybody knew it, and everybody everybody at Google, told
00:35:59.040 –> 00:36:06.780
James Ellis: wonderful stories about free and Eminem’s the coffee and the lunches and the vans that took you to work and all these wonderful perks, which is not a brand, but that’s a separate conversation.
00:36:07.620 –> 00:36:15.510
James Ellis: And everybody went Oh cool. I went to work there. So they didn’t have to worry about it, their employer brand was plenty positive. And at some point, things changed. And I think batter worst simply saying
00:36:16.230 –> 00:36:23.250
James Ellis: Exactly involves and which point they say, Okay, we’re going to take some take some ownership of this and be intentional about it, your startup.
00:36:23.760 –> 00:36:26.130
James Ellis: Same kind of process. It already exists. The question is,
00:36:26.430 –> 00:36:36.630
James Ellis: Is a problem for you to figure out, or is it good enough for you to coast by for a little bit. Now I’m going to go ahead and suggest that everybody on the listening on this particular this little webinar would go yet. Do it now. Do it now.
00:36:37.230 –> 00:36:40.830
James Ellis: But may not be perfectly exactly right for everybody. Yeah.
00:36:40.950 –> 00:36:45.390
Rafael Marcus: And I’ll actually tie. What you’re talking about to
00:36:46.560 –> 00:36:52.950
Rafael Marcus: What Lisa asked, and she asked least Dan is my favorite question to answer. And you’ll see it all into this really quickly.
00:36:53.580 –> 00:37:06.360
Rafael Marcus: But she asked, what is the best practice for overcoming negative brand comments. For example, like glass door that only illustrate the negative my team members have posted positive reviews and they are attacked on the platform and state that they’re fake reviews so
00:37:07.470 –> 00:37:09.270
Rafael Marcus: Obviously, there’s some sort of like
00:37:09.630 –> 00:37:16.260
James Ellis: How can there be fake reviews, a person wrote it, whether it’s a leader or a recruiter, you can’t discount that they actually work there too.
00:37:16.440 –> 00:37:18.720
Rafael Marcus: Okay, thanks. Or I think we could probably means
00:37:18.870 –> 00:37:21.210
Rafael Marcus: Maybe an authentic or
00:37:21.780 –> 00:37:23.580
Rafael Marcus: Added whitewashed or whatever.
00:37:23.910 –> 00:37:25.200
Rafael Marcus: So, um,
00:37:25.500 –> 00:37:33.060
Rafael Marcus: So yeah, so the reason this is one of my favorite questions because I was asked it a lot in my last company and and where I worked before. Um, and
00:37:33.600 –> 00:37:48.510
Rafael Marcus: On the one hand, you can do your best to control the story or influence the story off of, for example, glass door and by being relatively aggressive about an extremely authentic. Of course of, you know,
00:37:50.190 –> 00:37:59.430
Rafael Marcus: messaging around your, your employer brand, right. So I would say if you have a really terrible reviews, you need to, or you could if you want step on the gas a little bit with
00:38:00.600 –> 00:38:16.170
Rafael Marcus: With really a lot of positivity and really good stories. However, I will caveat that was saying, the only way to really cover tracks for bad Glassdoor reviews is for the company to treat their employees better
00:38:17.430 –> 00:38:30.840
Rafael Marcus: There will always be disgruntled people and there’s no question can’t make everybody happy, but the signal that glass door sense should not be. We need to invest in Employer branding, the signal that glass door sense should be. We need to invest in our people.
00:38:31.920 –> 00:38:39.810
Rafael Marcus: And I know that’s a separate conversation. Lisa, so I apologize if the answer is not, you know, completely direct to
00:38:40.440 –> 00:38:53.910
Rafael Marcus: What your, your ability to solve is, um, but that is what I pushed back to leadership and my last company when they said, you know, our Glassdoor reviews might be seemed like they might be decreasing. And it was because
00:38:54.330 –> 00:39:03.090
Rafael Marcus: You know, things have changed a bit. And I said, You know what, what can you do. And I said, Why are you asking me I lead Employer branding I’m
00:39:03.540 –> 00:39:13.440
Rafael Marcus: I have nothing to do with gospel reviews I you know you want blaster have used to go up or stop going down. Treat your employees better. Very simple. Um, but yeah.
00:39:13.920 –> 00:39:15.150
James Ellis: Can I quickly just a little bit.
00:39:15.180 –> 00:39:24.600
James Ellis: Yeah, the underlying truth there is is is on you. I can’t, I can’t break that down. But on top of that is this idea that I think
00:39:25.200 –> 00:39:30.780
James Ellis: While Glassdoor I spent a lot of time trying to convince everybody that their score is your employer brand, which of course is not true at all.
00:39:31.140 –> 00:39:42.180
James Ellis: What the score actually ends up being is a score and a function of your recruiting team. So if I tell everybody who walks in the door. This is an amazing place to work. There’s going to be a there’s a
00:39:42.480 –> 00:39:51.180
James Ellis: Puppy cuddle pile every Thursday. It’s free ice cream every Tuesday. It’s amazing. Everybody’s super happy. And people go, Oh, cool. I want to work here because that sounds amazing.
00:39:51.390 –> 00:39:54.990
James Ellis: And you show up and there’s a puppy cuddle pile only every other Thursday.
00:39:55.260 –> 00:40:00.030
James Ellis: And there’s not as much ice cream and they run an ice cream fest people get mad. It’s the problem is recruiters end up
00:40:00.240 –> 00:40:08.130
James Ellis: Are responsible and a lot of ways for setting the expectations of what the work is going to be. And when the company doesn’t meet those expectations.
00:40:08.700 –> 00:40:14.610
James Ellis: You’re going to get a bad score. Now, should the company make the company better. Absolutely. But I think a lot of it has
00:40:14.880 –> 00:40:21.390
James Ellis: Is it because it recruiters are incentivized to just bring the butt end, put it in the sea to make it happen to say whatever it needs to say
00:40:21.540 –> 00:40:28.470
James Ellis: To make it happen. So what I would think another strategy or an additional strategy because yes making company better hundred percent right
00:40:28.980 –> 00:40:33.240
James Ellis: Is to figure out how to reframe what’s being talked about. So if you took
00:40:33.480 –> 00:40:40.890
James Ellis: You know, I’ve seen companies where it’s like, this place is chaotic. I never know what’s going to happen one day of the next I keep getting new bosses my projects, keep getting shifted
00:40:41.100 –> 00:40:48.450
James Ellis: It’s a horrible place to work, because you know what, that sounds horrible framed as it’s chaos and I have no idea what’s what’s going on sounds horrible.
00:40:48.870 –> 00:40:59.970
James Ellis: For some people, for some people, dynamic, you have the opportunity to kind of make your own path because no one’s going to stand in your way. That sounds fantastic. So if you reframe it as a positive and and this
00:41:00.270 –> 00:41:09.330
James Ellis: Is not trying to whitewash I’m not trying to blow sunshine up anybody’s you know nether regions. It’s really just about you have to frame it appropriately. Think about the person who is
00:41:09.750 –> 00:41:18.690
James Ellis: Who goes to the post office and says, this place is slow. This place is bureaucratic, this place is boring. This place has stayed and it Friday. It’s, you know,
00:41:19.200 –> 00:41:23.100
James Ellis: It’s all over. This is horrible. I can’t make any change here. Well, yes, the post office.
00:41:23.370 –> 00:41:30.930
James Ellis: You, but there are people there who go, what I want is a work life balance stability and they think it’s a dream job. It’s really about how do you reframe
00:41:31.110 –> 00:41:39.060
James Ellis: The purpose of the job purpose of the company, the brand of the company to suit. And I think if you simply say to someone on the glass doors, you know, post in this places.
00:41:46.440 –> 00:41:47.340
Rafael Marcus: Everybody else’s dreams.
00:41:49.380 –> 00:41:51.090
Comeet Webinar: Yeah, I think we might have. Yeah.
00:41:51.120 –> 00:41:52.080
James Ellis: We’re hoping for everybody else.
00:41:52.410 –> 00:41:56.340
Comeet Webinar: Hey, James, we lost you for a sec. Can you repeat, maybe the last five seconds.
00:41:56.400 –> 00:42:02.490
James Ellis: Sure. So, you know, you know, what the heck I said that’s not my job to remember what I said, My goodness. It’s
00:42:02.760 –> 00:42:04.170
James Ellis: Just the stream. No.
00:42:04.320 –> 00:42:06.030
James Ellis: But here, here’s the here’s the best example.
00:42:06.120 –> 00:42:08.130
James Ellis: Here’s the best example, and I’m not name dropping, even though I am
00:42:08.580 –> 00:42:19.440
James Ellis: You all remember the article that came out about Amazon everybody’s crying at their desks. Everybody’s incredibly brutal everybody’s mean all the time. Everything’s rough and I talked to the people who work there. And as I said, how
00:42:21.660 –> 00:42:22.290
James Ellis: Are
00:42:27.540 –> 00:42:30.270
James Ellis: The best work possible. We want to be pushed you want the crew that
00:42:32.280 –> 00:42:41.100
James Ellis: Is the people who thought it would be all fun and games, who are crying at their desk, who didn’t realize that’s what they’re getting. So it’s the frame put around that idea is what you need to shift a little bit
00:42:43.200 –> 00:42:43.710
Lori Golden: Thank you.
00:42:44.790 –> 00:42:58.230
Lori Golden: So really, that I mean there’s some really great questions coming in. More I definitely want to touch on, because we’re already on that topic. But I mean, can you use employer brand strategy to shift.
00:42:58.920 –> 00:43:03.690
Lori Golden: You know, to get we know we’re here, right. We know this is how we’re perceived today.
00:43:04.020 –> 00:43:15.870
Lori Golden: And we know this is really the company, we want to be. This is our values, our culture, you know, our purpose for being in the world. How do you get from A to B. Like, how do you get from where you are today and shift that
00:43:18.630 –> 00:43:19.110
James Ellis: If you want it.
00:43:21.450 –> 00:43:28.110
James Ellis: Yeah, everything we’ve said so far as 100% true it’s about what is authentic, what’s real. Who are you, what are you
00:43:28.770 –> 00:43:40.140
James Ellis: About. I think the problem with the question, is that it assumes you are trying to be we’ve all seen those companies and say, amazing place to work right they they want to label themselves as an amazing place to work.
00:43:40.620 –> 00:43:50.340
James Ellis: The problem is it’s half a sentence because it’s an amazing place to work for whom in what capacity and what way, right, the person who’s happy and Facebook is not going to be happy at
00:43:50.820 –> 00:43:53.190
James Ellis: Goldman Sachs and vice versa. Right there very
00:43:53.700 –> 00:44:02.490
James Ellis: Wonderful places to work. I’m sure they’re just for certain people. So if you can tie who you’re going to be great for and illustrate that you’re in a better spot. So let’s say you’re
00:44:02.700 –> 00:44:10.800
James Ellis: Your brand is negative, that may be a function again of poor expectations coming in and maybe a function of the poor leadership in the past that you’re trying to solve for
00:44:11.310 –> 00:44:19.320
James Ellis: If you have solved for it. And again, it’s not about changing the, you know, if the foundation is good. You simply have to tell the stories about and it takes time to say
00:44:19.680 –> 00:44:26.910
James Ellis: You know, this is what the story is and get that story to travel and get people to believe it. Which means you do have to do on a semi regular basis you do actually have to
00:44:27.090 –> 00:44:34.620
James Ellis: And this is a phrase we all said and heard a million times live the brand and really be the brand and show it. This is what it’s like. Because again,
00:44:35.190 –> 00:44:40.770
James Ellis: If it’s negative, you’re trying to spin it, or you’re trying to that’s never going to work. It’s simply a matter of saying, look, we’re repositioning
00:44:40.950 –> 00:44:52.530
James Ellis: We’re showing where we fixed things where we’ve changed things and the direction we’re heading and here are stories that buttress that idea and show that we mean it. That’s a, that’s a strategy, but it depends on what the root cause of what the problem is, first,
00:44:54.270 –> 00:44:57.990
Lori Golden: Know, Ralph. Do you want to add to that, or do you want to touch on Emily’s question.
00:44:58.200 –> 00:44:58.560
00:45:00.720 –> 00:45:04.410
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, James. James is really thorough, so let me switch to
00:45:05.070 –> 00:45:07.530
James Ellis: And it’s the best backhanded compliment. I’ve ever had that I’m allowed no
00:45:07.740 –> 00:45:11.130
James Ellis: I love it. I love every year. It saves me time, it’s great. Um,
00:45:11.310 –> 00:45:19.230
Rafael Marcus: How do you So Emily was asking how do you talk about a specific type of person that would fit well in your company without being discriminatory.
00:45:20.010 –> 00:45:29.550
Rafael Marcus: Really good question, and probably a very complex answer in a whole lot of different perspectives that can give you. Yeah, thank you. Adrian values if
00:45:31.140 –> 00:45:38.640
Rafael Marcus: You know a lot of people will have different opinions on it. So I’ll give you mine. I’m, you know, I’m sure, Denzel will give this as well. Um, I would probably
00:45:39.630 –> 00:45:53.340
Rafael Marcus: Stay away from talking about a specific type of person that would fit in well. Um, and that’s really trying to not exclude anybody to your point, I’m Emily.
00:45:53.730 –> 00:46:10.860
Rafael Marcus: Uh, you know, discriminatory I think means so much to exclusive right um so to be more inclusive not it’s actually more about not being exclusive rather than focusing on being inclusive. So I would just probably stay away from getting that specific
00:46:12.060 –> 00:46:21.720
Rafael Marcus: And let people kind of get there on their own. So kind of like what James was talking about before. If somebody loves like chaos and that’s where they thrive.
00:46:22.080 –> 00:46:32.850
Rafael Marcus: Then they will get that through. If you’re doing your job messaging, they’ll just understand those reduce it from what they’re seeing and they’ll understand, you know, this is chaotic. It’s great for me.
00:46:33.570 –> 00:46:44.220
Rafael Marcus: Or this chaotic and no chance. Right. So I think if you do the messaging right the why and the how it will do that for you. And I always
00:46:45.030 –> 00:46:52.140
Rafael Marcus: Used to tell clients this when I worked at LinkedIn and and also you know where I worked last um, is that
00:46:52.530 –> 00:47:00.300
Rafael Marcus: It’s not about you know Employer branding and Mark, you know, from marketing and you know getting out there and social media for him, you know, recruiting
00:47:00.720 –> 00:47:06.900
Rafael Marcus: It’s not about significantly increasing your applications or your pipeline necessarily
00:47:07.800 –> 00:47:17.250
Rafael Marcus: It’s really about getting the right people and and keeping the wrong people out. So again, if you’re communicating your why and your how really well, it will
00:47:17.940 –> 00:47:26.400
Rafael Marcus: Push out the people that don’t fit. Um, and, you know, I know, culture fit is like a contentious term these days but um
00:47:27.000 –> 00:47:36.030
Rafael Marcus: Yeah, I think I know you’re saying Emily Like, who’s gonna arrive feel good and perform well. Um, it’s, it’s going to be the people that feel included through your content.
00:47:36.450 –> 00:47:45.690
Rafael Marcus: And in a good way. You’ll exclude the people that don’t. And a lot of companies or employer brand and people or or whoever’s trying to do this activity because they’re either assigned to it.
00:47:45.960 –> 00:48:05.760
Rafael Marcus: Or a job was actually created. And I want to give love to Randy and the other marketers on here that are showing deep interest in this and to eliminate any negative feelings we had before. But, um, but basically if you communicate properly or well, and specifically, it will do it for you.
00:48:07.560 –> 00:48:19.410
James Ellis: Yeah, and I think Emily’s follow up question about how do you get people to understand who they are, so that you can create that match or that culture ad, which I think I prefer the term, but whatever. Again this isn’t that conversation.
00:48:20.430 –> 00:48:28.080
James Ellis: And that’s tough. That’s 100% such a tough question. I am guilty of falling in love with the brand that I thought
00:48:28.680 –> 00:48:34.800
James Ellis: Was who I wanted to be. And it turns out I wasn’t that person and it takes getting your ass kicked. And it takes taking that job and
00:48:35.040 –> 00:48:42.960
James Ellis: And kind of deluding yourself a little bit to get in there and say, No, no, I definitely that kind of person and then getting your butt kicked in and having to leave that you’re like okay yeah I learned something about myself and that’s
00:48:43.260 –> 00:48:51.030
James Ellis: Always going to be a danger. And that’s really where some of those places like a, you know, they want to do personality tests and assessments and they try to get it that
00:48:51.810 –> 00:48:57.900
James Ellis: I quibble I have issues with some of that stuff. We’re not gonna get to that. But you’re right, it is, it absolutely hard question and that’s
00:48:58.200 –> 00:49:02.130
James Ellis: You know, it’s hard to kind of make sure people understand what you’re getting into all you can say is
00:49:02.430 –> 00:49:09.030
James Ellis: This is who we are as unvarnished is really you can be and say, look, we’re totally cool. If you don’t love us. That is totally fine.
00:49:09.270 –> 00:49:20.400
James Ellis: You know, we don’t need a million significant others. We just need a handful of people who love us for what we are. That’s kind of the approach, you have to take and then hope that they get who they are to it’s it’s it is a balancing act so
00:49:21.600 –> 00:49:22.890
James Ellis: There’s, it’s an unsolvable riddle.
00:49:24.840 –> 00:49:27.450
Rafael Marcus: A lorry. Can we talk a little bit about job descriptions
00:49:27.960 –> 00:49:31.350
Lori Golden: Yeah, because I’m seeing a lot. I think that would make good sense.
00:49:31.800 –> 00:49:32.730
Rafael Marcus: Who is the one that
00:49:33.780 –> 00:49:36.840
Rafael Marcus: I just want to make sure they get credit for the question I want to read the question.
00:49:39.240 –> 00:49:39.660
Rafael Marcus: Whereas
00:49:39.720 –> 00:49:41.220
James Ellis: Randy said something about job posting
00:49:41.250 –> 00:49:41.790
Lori Golden: I didn’t have any
00:49:43.260 –> 00:49:45.750
Lori Golden: In losing that language in the job postings.
00:49:45.840 –> 00:49:46.920
Rafael Marcus: Making so
00:49:47.250 –> 00:50:00.750
Rafael Marcus: Somebody else earlier asked about job descriptions and like I think it was something around how do you, you know, right job descriptions that, you know, enhance like tell the Employer branding story and that sounds
00:50:02.220 –> 00:50:08.790
Rafael Marcus: whoever that was sorry I’m trying to scroll up and find you. But thank you for the question. And it’s a great one. And actually,
00:50:09.870 –> 00:50:10.590
Rafael Marcus: It was
00:50:11.760 –> 00:50:19.650
Rafael Marcus: Like my favorite one of my favorite topics to talk about when I worked at LinkedIn and talk to, I must talk to hundreds of ta ta teams and leaders.
00:50:21.030 –> 00:50:30.150
Rafael Marcus: And, you know, they would oftentimes ask like, where do I start and, you know, this isn’t necessarily where you have to start, but it is an interesting place.
00:50:31.020 –> 00:50:35.760
Rafael Marcus: To evaluate impact hijack my drama low cost. Absolutely.
00:50:35.820 –> 00:50:46.020
Rafael Marcus: And and the way that I think about it and try to explain it. I know the marketing people on the call will really understand this and I assumed HR people as well.
00:50:46.890 –> 00:50:59.400
Rafael Marcus: But a job description is language on a page, right, whether it’s a piece of paper or web page or whatever. To me, that means its content literally right
00:50:59.970 –> 00:51:08.550
Rafael Marcus: And while a lot of companies use still use the bullet points and, you know, very basic stuff and even tell a story at the top.
00:51:09.240 –> 00:51:17.550
Rafael Marcus: My question to them is are you treating this as a piece of content marketing, right, or can you think about it as a piece of content marketing.
00:51:18.180 –> 00:51:29.730
Rafael Marcus: Just like you know marketer would, in terms of trying to drive conversion rate you are trying to drive conversion, but you’re also trying to keep you know the not right fit out
00:51:30.900 –> 00:51:41.670
Rafael Marcus: So yeah i mean it’s it’s really powerful to do it to do it the right way is not easy. James, you might have some examples of companies that have done job descriptions really well. Yeah.
00:51:41.880 –> 00:51:42.390
James Ellis: Yeah, there’s, there’s
00:51:43.920 –> 00:51:53.280
James Ellis: A personally because I think it’s look there. And I mentioned Katrina Kevin in the in the chat. She is, she you want an A plus job posting. That’s who I would go to she’s the queen. She knows this better than anybody.
00:51:54.120 –> 00:52:03.840
James Ellis: However, they’re not cheap. And they’re not fast, but if you want inexpensive and fast and get yourself to an immediate B plus which by the way is probably three or four levels over where you are right now.
00:52:04.620 –> 00:52:09.540
James Ellis: You follow model, which is really simple. You have a paragraph that talks about your company and the change. It’s trying to make in the world.
00:52:09.780 –> 00:52:20.040
James Ellis: You talk to have a paragraph about the team and how it helps the company, you have a paragraph about the role and how it helps the team. So you’re creating a direct line of how one person impacts the larger scope of work.
00:52:20.250 –> 00:52:30.450
James Ellis: You have a paragraph about the culture, whether it’s the office, the team. You decide. And then you have bullet points around this is what your day looks like. And this is who we’d like to talk to you. If the trick is
00:52:30.990 –> 00:52:36.240
James Ellis: If you have lots of different recruiters and lots of different HR. HR VP is writing these things. It’s going to sound like chaos.
00:52:37.410 –> 00:52:43.890
James Ellis: You’re 100% right these are marketing materials. These are not legal. Doctors job descriptions are legal documents job postings or marketing materials, which means
00:52:44.070 –> 00:52:47.820
James Ellis: You don’t have to be 100% inclusive. You don’t have to be comprehensive. You don’t have to be list.
00:52:48.060 –> 00:52:58.890
James Ellis: Must must be able to lift 50 pounds. Unless that’s legally necessary right there’s there’s elements but marketing is marketing. Don’t lie right just like any good marketing, but you don’t have to be completely comprehensive
00:52:59.340 –> 00:53:06.450
James Ellis: What I would say is the trick to getting all these different people who write job postings on the same page to create alignment is as the employer brand owner
00:53:06.690 –> 00:53:11.490
James Ellis: Create your own lexicon create your own Dictionary of let’s call it 20 words, maybe 25 words.
00:53:11.760 –> 00:53:17.910
James Ellis: Of things in terms you use over and over and over. And you’re right. If I told you move fast and break things you immediately went
00:53:18.210 –> 00:53:23.910
James Ellis: Facebook, right, there’s, there are phrases that kind of embed and text do did a great study on this stuff to say that
00:53:24.060 –> 00:53:32.820
James Ellis: Nets know Netflix says the certain terms over and over again. Microsoft says these terms over and over again because they intentionally see them over and over again, they’re telling you what their brand is
00:53:33.150 –> 00:53:40.590
James Ellis: At the same time, it allows individual writers to speak in a voice that is unique and human without sounding like a bunch of parents
00:53:41.040 –> 00:53:47.610
James Ellis: Apply here apply here apply here. I want a cracker. You know, as he that stuff that same language, over and over again doesn’t play
00:53:47.790 –> 00:53:53.100
James Ellis: It allows people to do it in the right word, but by seeding specific words or terms throughout all that stuff.
00:53:53.250 –> 00:54:04.380
James Ellis: You create an alignment against that. So if someone sees this job posting and that job posting, even though the rate by different people at different stages of different jobs, they still feels like the same company which is intentional as the person who’s
00:54:04.800 –> 00:54:13.890
James Ellis: Choosing those words you’re choosing the word that support the brand. So it’s a way of. And by the way, that’s not just for job postings that everywhere every social post every job every
00:54:14.190 –> 00:54:19.320
James Ellis: Career site every Glassdoor respond to use them over and over and over again to create alignment. Yeah, you know,
00:54:19.380 –> 00:54:20.670
Rafael Marcus: We could connect that
00:54:21.870 –> 00:54:29.130
Rafael Marcus: Lead to the Golden Circle exercise. Right. So you know the the phrase that you keep hearing. So Apple think different right
00:54:29.160 –> 00:54:32.310
Rafael Marcus: On Facebook, bring stuff, you know, whatever. That’s their why
00:54:32.550 –> 00:54:33.090
Rafael Marcus: From you know
00:54:33.540 –> 00:54:42.990
Rafael Marcus: Partially right so you can come up with a list of words that fit into the why and the how and then apply them like James is saying. And, you know, certain order, whatever.
00:54:43.470 –> 00:54:49.680
Rafael Marcus: Into your job postings, and you can. I’ll end with us. You can even think about each job posting as a mini career page.
00:54:50.220 –> 00:55:05.700
Rafael Marcus: For each job right. So your career page will likely have, you know, the headline, which is not your employer brand, but it’s a tagline that represents your wife, and maybe you’re out and then you know all the things underneath are your house, your proof points, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:55:06.750 –> 00:55:12.030
Rafael Marcus: You know, you could think about writing each job description, specific to that job like you’re writing a full career page.
00:55:12.690 –> 00:55:23.340
Rafael Marcus: That might help some people have think about the formatting and a way to basically tell the story because that’s what he does is it tells the story of your MVP your brand like that kind of stuff.
00:55:23.730 –> 00:55:24.510
James Ellis: All content marketing.
00:55:26.130 –> 00:55:35.820
Lori Golden: We’re in the last five minutes. I just want to remind everyone is still on the call. We have the third part of this employer brand series next Thursday at noon Eastern Time.
00:55:36.180 –> 00:55:41.880
Lori Golden: We are going to be. This is the most fun of the three, in my opinion, we’re really going to be digging in on
00:55:42.150 –> 00:55:54.840
Lori Golden: Bold exciting campaigns amplifying that brand. Once you have all the words and the messaging down what fun things exciting events and great campaigns, can you do with that with that messaging.
00:55:55.110 –> 00:56:01.590
Lori Golden: And and I want to take out this conversation. On this last point here. How important is it to have a
00:56:02.850 –> 00:56:18.390
Lori Golden: An elevator pitch that everyone internally knows and that that is something that you can kind of hit your employer brand to or that you can start really having everybody internally at the bare minimum explaining the company in the right way. And the same way.
00:56:21.990 –> 00:56:25.500
James Ellis: I cringe at elevator speeches and elevator pitches, I think.
00:56:27.090 –> 00:56:32.430
James Ellis: I think elevator presentations and elevator pitches presume that you only have 30 seconds and that you have to
00:56:32.940 –> 00:56:36.600
James Ellis: Have it all in there at once. You have to stick as many of those words, you have to, and I think
00:56:37.200 –> 00:56:40.200
James Ellis: Much like the cover of a book, much like the sub the header of the sub
00:56:40.440 –> 00:56:49.230
James Ellis: Subject line of an email or the, the title of a good click Beatty piece you’re the job of that is to get you to set get someone to say, Hmm, that’s interesting. I want to learn more.
00:56:49.500 –> 00:57:01.650
James Ellis: So whatever you say should be that so long as when they say I want to learn more. It’s directing to pieces that you have a little more control over the job posting as a career sites, the social content, etc, etc. So I don’t love elevator pitches, but
00:57:02.220 –> 00:57:09.390
James Ellis: They’re plenty times when it makes sense. So I think there’s. I’m not going to say they’re horrible and not considered bad. I’m just saying I like I cringe at that because I think that there are other ways of approaching it.
00:57:09.690 –> 00:57:12.810
James Ellis: The trying to jam it and it doesn’t, it’s not going to get you where you want to go.
00:57:13.950 –> 00:57:14.460
Rafael Marcus: On the screen.
00:57:15.210 –> 00:57:15.480
Rafael Marcus: Go there.
00:57:15.930 –> 00:57:19.020
James Ellis: Do it. Do it. We have exactly three minutes beat me.
00:57:19.380 –> 00:57:20.460
Rafael Marcus: don’t disagree. So
00:57:21.810 –> 00:57:24.870
Rafael Marcus: You’re more or less. Yeah, I’m in the same mindset.
00:57:26.610 –> 00:57:28.620
James Ellis: Oh good lord is gonna shave her head to that’s fantastic.
00:57:29.160 –> 00:57:31.320
Rafael Marcus: John thank you for the comments. That’s really funny.
00:57:33.690 –> 00:57:40.500
Lori Golden: We’re, we’re, we’re at the end here if anybody else online has any additional questions that are very quick. Otherwise, feel free.
00:57:40.860 –> 00:57:50.400
Lori Golden: Adrian has posted all of our contact information or LinkedIn or emails, feel free to reach out to any one of us individually for deeper detailed
00:57:51.030 –> 00:57:59.280
Lori Golden: Information on the topics we’ve already talked about. And again, please do join us next week. Really excited we’re all going to shave our heads, apparently.
00:57:59.880 –> 00:58:01.650
Lori Golden: So that might be even more interesting.
00:58:01.680 –> 00:58:02.490
James Ellis: Thinking about it to
00:58:02.970 –> 00:58:08.250
Lori Golden: Where we’re trying to keep things light and yeah a little bit of levity nowadays so
00:58:08.760 –> 00:58:16.590
Lori Golden: Um, any other questions. Otherwise, we’re gonna wrap this up. And I wanted to thank you know James and Raphael as always for your participation.
00:58:17.430 –> 00:58:21.930
Lori Golden: Wonderful content really great information, you know, and
00:58:22.860 –> 00:58:34.740
Lori Golden: Thank you everyone who’s on the line. Thank you for everyone who joined us all our attendees, please do join us next week we’re going to really take this to the next level and talking about all the fun and bold exciting things we can do now.
00:58:35.220 –> 00:58:40.920
Rafael Marcus: And any specific questions follow ups you guys want to work together with either Mirror, mirror gems just
00:58:42.150 –> 00:58:48.480
Lori Golden: invite colleagues peers, you know, post this everybody seems to be enjoying the content. We want to get as many people on as we can.
00:58:48.480 –> 00:58:48.990
Rafael Marcus: Send it
00:58:49.080 –> 00:58:50.550
Rafael Marcus: Lets our economy. Appreciate it.
00:58:51.180 –> 00:58:57.840
Comeet Webinar: Thanks, everyone. We’ll go out with the LinkedIn to all of our panelists, you can contact them later. Okay.
00:58:58.320 –> 00:58:59.070
Lori Golden: Take care.
00:58:59.130 –> 00:58:59.730
Lori Golden: Yeah, he
00:59:00.090 –> 00:59:01.710
James Ellis: Didn’t profile, then I should get one of those
00:59:01.890 –> 00:59:03.300
James Ellis: So we’re saying, Okay, cool.
00:59:04.320 –> 00:59:05.010
Comeet Webinar: Bye.